FAQ About MRCA Stop Sign Tickets

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First, if you haven’t already done so, read my post The $100 Stop Sign Scam about the MRCA issuing tickets at stop signs in their parks. Then, come back here to read about what you can do if you have been issued one of these tickets. Please note that I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice.

Who is the MRCA?
The Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority (MRCA) is a “Joint Powers Agency” (a local government agency) which manages the parklands of the Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy as well as the Conejo and Rancho Simi Parks and Recreation Districts. As a government agency, the MRCA may exercise the common powers granted to its member entities by the State of California. It may not, however, exercise any powers not granted to its member entities or that conflict with State or Federal law. You can find their website here.

Does the MRCA have the authority to issue citations?
As a Joint Powers Agency, the MRCA is permitted create those ordinances which its member entities would be permitted to create. In this case, the MRCA has created an ordinance establishing rules and regulations for the use of the parklands under its control and the penalties for the violation of those rules. California law permits local agencies to exercise “police powers” and charge citizens with having committing certain crimes; generally misdemeanors or infractions. The law also permits local agencies to issue “administrative citations” rather than charge someone with an infraction.

So what’s an administrative citation?
Without getting too technical, an administrative citation is a lesser charge that carries no criminal penalties, only civil penalties, meaning just a monetary fine. Parking tickets are a form of administrative citation.

I got a ticket mailed from the MRCA claiming I ran a stop sign. What kind of ticket is this?
This is an administrative citation that carries no criminal penalties and no potential to put points on your license. You are being cited for violating the park rules, one of which is that you must obey all signs. The penalty that the MRCA imposes for this is $175.

But isn’t running a stop sign a violation of the Vehicle Code?
Yes. But you are not being charged under the vehicle code. You are being charged with violating park rules. The MRCA has set the park rules, set the penalties for violating those rules, set the conditions under which they can charge you with violating the rules, and set the rules for how you can defend yourself when you are charged with violating the rules.

Is that fair?
It doesn’t seem fair to me, or to a lot of other people who have looked into this issue. But whether or not it’s fair, the real question is, is it legal?

Ok, is it legal?
The MRCA, not surprisingly, claims that it is. And, using taxpayer funds, they’ve hired the law firm of Richards, Watson, & Gershon to come up with a legal rationale for this position. On the other hand, many other attorneys have offered numerous legal arguments as to why the actions of the MRCA are not permitted under State law. The bottom line is that regardless of any lawyer’s or layperson’s opinion, the MRCA will continue to issue these citations until either a court of law rules that their actions are impermissible or state lawmakers amend California law to make it clear that what the MRCA is doing is not allowed.

What are some of the legal arguments that the MRCA is acting illegally?
The answer to that question is quite detailed and is beyond the scope of this FAQ. We are preparing a document focusing on that subject alone and will link to it here once it is completed. In general, though, the arguments against the MRCA are the following:

1. The MRCA ordinance is pre-empted by state law, specifically the California Vehicle Code, which does not permit the use of automated enforcement at stop signs.
2. The MRCA may not use automated enforcement for violations of its ordinances because Public Resources Code 5786.17 which gives parks districts authority to issue citations (and which the MRCA uses to claim its authority to do so) specifies that those citations may only be issued when the violation is committed in the presence of a uniformed employee issuing the citation.
3. The MRCA may not issue administrative citations in excess of $100.00 because Government Code 53069.4 which authorizes local agencies to issue administrative citations (and which the MRCA uses to claim its authority to do so) specifically limits these citations to $100.00.

There are other legal objections to the MRCA’s authority to use automated ticking cameras to issue citations at stop signs, but these are the most notable.

The video doesn’t show who the driver is. Is the citation valid without them identifying the driver?
If you were being charged under the rules of the vehicle code, the answer would be no. However, the MRCA is citing you under their own ordinance which makes the vehicle owner responsible for the violation, not the driver. See above where we discuss how the MRCA makes up all the rules.

Can I just ignore this ticket?
While we can’t give legal advice, here’s what may happen if you simply ignore this ticket. First, the MRCA will add interest and penalties to the violation (again according to their own rules). Then, they will likely send your info to a collection agency who will try to collect from you. The collection agency may also report the debt to the credit reporting agencies and it may show up on your credit report. This is similar to what happens when you don’t pay a parking ticket. However, we have some anecdotal information from readers of this blog that when they contacted the collection agency and stated that the debt wasn’t valid and that they would sue if the debt got reported to the credit reporting agencies, they never heard from the collection agency again and the debt never showed up on their credit report. We can not independently confirm that this is correct information. If we receive additional information on this subject, we will list it here.

Update: Literally hundreds of people have responded to this post and my original post The $100 Stop Sign Scam. All of those who have ignored the ticket have said that it has not been reported on their Credit Report. I cannot guarantee that this will be your experience, but we have little reason to believe that it is likely to change.

How can I fight this ticket?
The procedure for contesting the ticket is spelled out on the MRCA website. Basically, you must respond by the due date, pay the fine, and request a hearing at their location in Franklin Canyon Park off Mulholland Drive in Beverly Hills. Diana Hartman administers the citation program. Her number is 310-858-7272 ext. 103.

Do I have a chance at beating the ticket at the hearing?
Most likely, no. The hearing will be conducted by one of their employees whose job it is to find as many people guilty and collect as much revenue from this program as possible. If the employee found a large number of citizens not guilty, she would soon be out of a job. Therefore, unless you can prove that you were not the owner of the vehicle or that you clearly did come to stop at the stop sign, you are unlikely to prevail. Arguments such as “no one was put in danger”, or you slowed down but didn’t quite stop, or you can’t afford to pay, or the whole thing is a scam (which it is), are unlikely to get you anywhere.

What about the legal arguments you mentioned above?
Again, these arguments are unlikely to sway the hearing officer to find you not guilty. The MRCA has heard them all before and has rejected them. They don’t care how strong or well researched your legal argument is. They either really believe that they are correct or they don’t care if they’re not.

So why should I bother fighting this?
Two reasons. First, why give them your money without making them work for it. It costs them time and money to conduct these hearings and if enough people fought them, the program would be much less profitable. Plus, it’s the principle of the thing. I personally believe that when you are treated unfairly, especially by the government, you fight back, even when there is little hope of success. Second, if/when you are found guilty in the administrative hearing, you can appeal the decision to an actual court with an actual judge. But, if you don’t go to the hearing, you can’t appeal.

What’s the procedure for appealing to superior court?
Within 20 days of being served with the final decision from the hearing officer, you can file an appeal with the superior court. There is a $25 fee to appeal, but if you win, you get back your $175 fine plus the $25 fee. Of course, if you lose then you are out another $25. Note that the 20 day window to appeal may begin on the day the notice of final decision is mailed to you (if you don’t receive it at the hearing), not the day you actually receive it. Therefore, the best thing to do if you want to appeal is to file the paperwork with the court as soon as you receive your notice. If you miss the 20 day window, even if it is by one day, your appeal will be denied.

What’s the chance of beating the ticket in superior court?
Not great, but a whole lot better than at the administrative hearing. Note that this is a whole new trial, what happened at the hearing doesn’t count – although the file from the hearing will be part of the court record and the judge can refer to it. This is the time when you want to make all your legal objections to the citation. These objections would be of two kinds. First, the ordinance and ticketing program are illegal according to state law. (See the limited legal arguments above.) Second, you’d want to make legal objections to the introduction of the photo evidence and other “due process” arguments. There is some recent case law here in California that should make using photo enforcement evidence much more difficult for the MRCA, so getting the photo evidence tossed out is entirely possible. The caveat here is that these are fairly complicated arguments to make and while it’s not impossible for you to handle your case on your own, you will have a much better chance if you are represented by an attorney at this stage. Of course, attorneys cost money; likely more than the $175 fine. But don’t despair, there may be a solution for you. Read my post “Hire an Attorney to Fight Your MRCA Ticket”, for more information.

Update: The attorney mentioned in the above post has defended a few people and has won a couple of cases. We do not believe he is taking on more of these cases due to the costs involved. However, you are still free to contact him, he is an excellent traffic defense attorney.

If you decide you want to fight this on your own, let me know and I’ll try to help you as best as I can. Remember, though, that I am not an attorney and can’t give legal advice, just info on how you can help yourself.

What happens if I’m found guilty in superior court?
All is still not lost, you can appeal further – to the Appellate Court and then on to the California Supreme Court if necessary. The process for that is beyond the scope of this FAQ, but do know that it will be an option for you if you do things right in your superior court trial. This is another reason why having an attorney represent you is a good idea – to preserve your ability to appeal should you lose in your original trial. Again, it’s not impossible for you to do it all yourself (I have) but it will take a great deal of time and study to learn what you need to do. The good thing is that there are no additional fees to appeal your case beyond superior court.

Update: There have been a couple of cases that have been appealed above the Superior Court level. Our understanding is that the appellate court has upheld the MRCA’s ability to continue citing motorists. We, of course, believe that these cases have been wrongly decided. They may be on appeal to a higher court, perhaps up to the California Supreme Court. If we get more information, we will post it here.

What about this class action suit I’ve been hearing about?
At this point, the attorney, Michael Braun of the Braun Law Group has filed a case against the MRCA. There is a hearing in mid September. No class has been certified yet, meaning that there’s no ruling as to who can be part of the group that is suing (the class). When I have more information, I will pass it along. It is possible that if you pay your fine or have paid, that you will get your money back if (1) you qualify to be part of the suit and (2) the suit is successful. Those are two big “ifs” but hopefully that is exactly what will happen for the vast majority of people who have been ripped off by the MRCA.

Update: This case has either stalled or been settled. When we get more information, we will post it here.

Is there anything else I can do?
David Goldstein of Channel 2 news here in Los Angeles is considering doing a story about this. You can contact him at djgoldstein@cbs.com and tell him your story. Who knows, if enough people hear about this abuse of power, perhaps our legislators will actually do their jobs and reign in this rogue agency. Edit: The TV expose’ aired on Channel 2 here in Los Angeles in mid September. You can view it here.

Feel free to post additional questions in the comments section. Also, if you feel that this has been helpful, consider making a donation through the paypal link in the sidebar. It’s absolutely not required, but helps me to continue doing this work. Also, sign up for my newsletter and check the box for MRCA Alerts so you can get the most up-to-date and breaking news about legislation and court challenges.

Update: There is some new information about what the MRCA is up to posted at my other website, Safer Streets L.A.

If you enjoyed this article, please share it with others by clicking on the Facebook “Like” button above or one or more of the icons below. If you wish to be notified each time I put up a new post, you can subscribe through one of the links to the right. (If you don’t know what RSS is, just choose the email option.) Finally, leave some feedback or join the discussion by commenting below. I’d love to know what you think.

The $100 Stop Sign Scam

August 21st, 2010 Posted by freedomminute | State Government | 125 comments

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125 Responses to “FAQ About MRCA Stop Sign Tickets”

Comment by AS | September 6th, 2010

I have 4 drivers registered in my auto insurance policy to drive the car which was issued a stop sign violation by the MRCA. None of the 4 drivers admit that he/she commited the violation in question. Can I fight my case with the MRCA on the basis of requesting them to provide me with a photo of the driver in order to proof liability? If they say that park rules were written to the affect the owner is responsible, I would reply that I did not see a sign at the park entrance attesting to this park rule. What are your thoughts? Do you think that I have a chance? Thanks.

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Jennifer Gabrielle Reply:
December 16th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
Hi, I received 2 photo tickets last month(NOVEMBER 2010)! 1st one: Nov. 18,2010 2nd one on november 21st, 2010…I’m outraged and in the second ticket, there is a car behind me and he also got a ticket because he was in the video captured of my car….I break to a california roll, cause there was NOBODY around, he totally rolls through behind me without breaking. I’m pissed off and need answers…do I pay to have my “rigged hearing” and fight these illegal tickets, based on the fact that the MRCA is making up a law that is not in the vehicle code… Or do I refuse to pay because I heard the contracts on some ticket cameras have expired and 56,000 people haven’t paid their tickets..Also, doesn’t an officer have to be present to give me the ticket…this is from pheonix, arizona and nobody was present to write me a ticket> On top of that, I heard the judges are throwing out the cases of unpaid tickets because they have no way to collect the funds.It came out on the news this week that the man in charge of the program is hoping responsible citizens will pay the tickets out of the good faith…c’mon it’s an outrage and I don’t have the money to spend on a lawyer but I do want to fight this….please help! I didn’t see the stop sign the 1st time, the 2nd time i saw it and i did break but didn’t come to a “complete stop” because i saw no people, no cars, and im in the freaking woods! I go there to unwind and relax not to get scammed by the MRCA. I’m traumatized now about going back to franklin canyon! PLEASE HELP ME!!!

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John from L.A. Reply:
December 16th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
Don’t bother and don’t worry. Read my posts.

Also, as it turns out you don’t have to pay the regular L.A. traffic camera tickets either:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40670952

– John
(PS: This is such B.S. — it’s private property! Can I put up a traffic cam at the end of MY driveway and ticket people who don’t make full stops?)

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Jennifer Gabrielle Reply:
December 16th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
thanks john, you mean don’t bother fighting it in court?since im at work i didn’t have time to read all the posts but i will when i get home. I like your idea! How about giving the MRCA a ticket!

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John from L.A. Reply:
December 16th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
Exactly. They made some vague threat (verbally) about it screwing up my credit, but it was bogus. Too bad, because I DEFINITELY would have taken them to court over THAT one (well, more like the credit reporting agencies). My credit record is based on things I AGREED TO PAY. If you get a bad credit record, it’s because you didn’t pay what you promised to pay. I DEFINITELY never promised to pay the MRCA ticket! And it’s been a few years and nothing ever showed up on my record — just like those who have ignored the L.A. Camera Tickets! The tide is turning on these Ticket Cameras!

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Dennis Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 7:43 pm
I too have ignored my ticket from them since January 2010. Got a few collections letters curiously asking me for less than the original fine…. doesn’t matter anyway bc I have zero intention of paying them anything.

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Dennis Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 7:48 pm
oh and not a thing has happened to my credit report. this is just a hollow threat.

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abbey124 Reply:
April 1st, 2012 at 9:40 pm
Just wanted to updated all on the status of my ticket. This is my third posting about the Stop Sign ticket.. It has been over a year now since I got a “Notice of Traffic Violation” ticket asking me to pay $175 for stop sign violation. I did not pay it as the research I found suggest that they have no right (All the cases I manage to find online showed they lost all the cases that were brought against them for Stop Sign Violation). ~ 3 months later, I was asked to pay 175 + 17.5 (fee for late payment) witch I ignored. Six month after getting my ticket, I got a letter from a collection agency asking me to pay $240 or contact them and explain why I’m not responsible for the payment. Initially I was tempted to send a letter explaining my stand. On a second thought I decided to ignore them, which I did, as I felt I don’t owe them any explanation. I also though it’s not a smart thing to have any corespondent with them. After that and to date, I didn’t hear any thing back, not form the collection agency or MRCA. Thanks

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Jason Reply:
January 31st, 2011 at 3:47 pm
Alright John I just got back from a deployment and had one of these tickets in the mail from 7 months ago. I remember rolling through the stop sign it was a couple days before I left…Well anyways now I got RSI credit collection people calling saying I got 3 days left to pay before it hits my credit. I got no problem paying the original fee because I did roll through it but no one can give me answer to who I can talk to to get the late fees taking off…I mean come on I was in Afhgan I the hell was I to know I had a ticket in my mailbox….So from what I been reading it sounds like I shouldn’t pay it at all…

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John from the Westside Reply:
January 31st, 2011 at 4:02 pm
How can it hit your credit? You didn’t agree to pay it did you? A credit record concerns a person’s not paying agreed upon debts.

If they sent it to collections on me, I would ***DARE*** the collection agency to try putting this on my credit record. They’d find themselves in court very fast.

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Dennis Reply:
February 2nd, 2011 at 9:58 am
yeah i do not think they can really put anything on your credit. its like i cant just report something on someone elses credit just bc i feel like they owe me money.

not a thing has happened to my credit and its been over a year. this is just a hollow threat. i would be curious to hear if anyone has gotten anything on their credit though.

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Comment by freedomminute | September 8th, 2010

They don’t have to provide you with a photo of the driver because the ordinance makes the owner of the vehicle responsible. And saying you didn’t see a sign about the park rules isn’t going to get you very far either. Plus, you’d be admitting that you were driving the car.

However, one of the valid defenses listed in their ordinance is: (4). That the vehicle was operated without the consent of the registered vehicle owner.

How you would actually prove that, I don’t know, but if you can show the the vehicle was driven without your permission, then according to their ordinance, you are not guilty.

[Reply]
Comment by John from L.A. | September 21st, 2010

I got hit at Temescal Canyon and they gave me the same line of B.S. about it won’t go on my driving record but would go on my credit record. IT DID NOT!!! I didn’t think they could abuse the credit service in that way as I did NOT agree nor sign anything promising to pay it, therefore I cannot be flagged as delinquent (that’s what the credit services are for!).

DON’T PAY IT AND IGNORE ALL THE DIRE THREATS!!! THAT’S ALL THEY HAVE!!! MRCA TICKETS ARE AS UNCONSITITIONAL AS ME PUTTING ONE AT THE END OF MY DRIVEWAY!!!!

[Reply]
Comment by Art | September 22nd, 2010

John,

How long ago did you get your letter from the collection agency?
I ask because it may not have gone on your credit report…yet.
Hopefully it never will!

Your comment gives us optimism.

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Comment by Barnet Fagel | October 8th, 2010

This is to inform you that I have been researching photo enforcement policies and technical processes for the past three years.
My video background, expert witness experience and study has led me to the following conclusion:

My research has exposed a fundamental technical flaw in the vast majority of traffic photo enforcement video recordings. Most photo enforcement system vendors are foreign-based companies using their respective county’s video standards. Forensic video analysis shows the video is sped up by 16 percent, thereby invalidating the evidence for stop, sign & speed camera schemes. I believe this information may be the surest way to challenge photo enforcement.Should you want a copy of the white paper please visittheTicketDoctor.net to leave an e-mail request. Barnet Fagel 847-883-8990

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Comment by Claudio | December 1st, 2010

I got hit with the same thing but never received the ticket in the mail (I swear I didn’t, for real!) and only received their second notice AFTER the due date for requesting a hearing. I called and asked them to send me the original ticket with the pictures etc…, which they did. What should I do now? Ignore the whole thing? Any news on the class action suite or the Braun case?

CLaudio

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John from L.A. Reply:
December 1st, 2010 at 7:35 pm
I would ignore it. As of now, NOTHING has ever shown up on my credit report and it has been over two years.

Just be aware you will probably get more warnings of dire consequences.
– John

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
December 2nd, 2010 at 5:22 am
John – Thanks for sharing your experience. Every bit of evidence helps readers decide what to do.

Claudio – I’ll be attending the next hearing on the class action on Friday and will report back what’s happening.

[Reply]
Tim Reply:
December 3rd, 2010 at 5:26 pm
Got a citation in the mail from them,it doesn’t look legit. Please let me know about the hearing. thanks!

[Reply]
Sue Reply:
March 21st, 2011 at 12:37 pm
The EXACT same thing happened to me. I never got the first notice only a letter (no violation, no photo) saying I can no longer appeal and to pay an extra fee above the $175 ticket. I called and asked for the photo – they never sent it. So I thought it was a total scam. 5 months later I get a collections letter from RSI. I got my attorney to send a letter to RSI because I’m suspecting this whole thing has been a fraud to collect money. RSI provides the address of MRCA and Redflex so I write them this time and ask for the photo. They send it but it doesn’t show whether or not I did a rolling stop. I honestly cannot remember since this was back in August. It just tells the date and time and that I was going at 9MPH in a 15 MPH zone. I had my kid with me I cannot imagine I did anything unsafe including not fulling stopping. The video in question apparently is no longer available to me and I cannot appeal since the date has passed – but that’s a total joke since I got my second and only notice AFTER the administrative hearing date passed. I have read on this and other websites that what the MRCA is doing is not exactly legal – but that they are getting away with it because it’s their own ordinance. I too have an excellent credit record and don’t want this to ruin it. Should I just pay it even though I don’t know if I was in violation? Any outcome from the Braun lawsuit? Has anyone’s credit record been affected and has anyone dealt with this RSI organization out of Arizona? Thanks.

[Reply]
John from L.A. Reply:
March 21st, 2011 at 2:39 pm
I don’t see how this is possible. Your credit record reflects your paying or not paying THINGS YOU AGREED TO. Did you agreed to pay this? I didn’t and I didn’t pay and NOTHING EVER HAPPENED.

[Reply]
Dennis Reply:
March 21st, 2011 at 5:33 pm
dont give into their extortion. i never paid and nothing has happened. it sounds like my experience has been replicated on this board. despite their threats they cant just put stuff on your credit report.

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Comment by Stacy | December 6th, 2010

I too just received a citation from MRCA and decided to call the DMV to ask about any reprecussions. They claim there are none on their end and suggested I call my local law enforcement, which I’ve yet to do. At this point, I can’t agree more that this is a total scam…even the citation requests payments be sent to CLEVELAND!! The civil penalty threat makes me nervous, but every fiber of me being wants to ignore this fraud!

[Reply]
John from L.A. Reply:
December 16th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
It’s an empty threat. Civil penalty… how? Did you agree to pay it? What possible basis would they have for this? It’s totally bogus… as people on this website have attested.

[Reply]
Comment by AM | December 16th, 2010

I work at a film financing/production company and had our inhouse attorney look at my citation – she said toss it. It violates several CA laws and IF it does go to collection, it is easy to have it dismissed at that point. I’ll certainly check my credit at the end of next year but I’m not worried and certainly will not hand them $175 dollars to hear their OWN people say the citation is valid.

[Reply]
Comment by Barnet Fagel | December 16th, 2010

If any readers have a camera citation send me the information to view it and I will GIVE you a free forensic video analysis. Info@theticketdoctor.net
847-883-8900, this is not a scam. Barnet Fagel

[Reply]
Comment by Sil | February 3rd, 2011

I just received a ticket today for the MLK weekend in Temescal. I’m upset because I paid the $7 to park in their “public” parking, yet they hit me with a rolling stop violation. Not content with one violation, they hit me with two! TWO tickets for $175 each!!! I feel totally robbed of my hard earned money. I’m not sure what to do because I am one to always pay my bills and have excellent credit. I don’t want to get into any legal trouble or ruin my credit, but I feel completely violated

[Reply]
Fig Reply:
February 15th, 2011 at 11:08 am
and I got THREE in one day!

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Comment by Dennis | February 3rd, 2011

I havent paid mine in over a year now. Got a few collection letters of course. Nothing has happened to my credit. These are all hollow threats.

I too have excellent credit but this is clearly bull and I would ignore it.

What they are doing is outrageous and amounts to simple extortion.

[Reply]
Comment by jennifer | March 21st, 2011

well, i want to share my experience. I received 2 MRCA tickets in Franklin canyon. I fought them both in a hearing at franklin canyon in february. My arguement was twofold: a. i can’t afford it due to financial hardship b.that if i had been notified right away about the 1st citation, i never would have recieved a 2nd citation as i would have corrected my behaviour. Isn’t that why the reason they claim they have this photo enforcement program anyhow, to make us stop at the stop sign…Its a money scam because with the technology they have to video/photograph me going thru a stop sign, the MRCA can certainly notify me a.s.a.p. if they chose to and i guarantee i wouldn’t have gotten a 2nd ticket!
Anyhow, at the hearing i had a personal victory! Each ticket is $175. they lowered each ticket to just $100, saving me $150 bucks I don’t think anybody ever gets a total annulment of the ticket, but shaving off $150 is not to shabby! I still don’t want to pay what i owe, ($200), but i haven’t decided what to do? im thinking of paying it to avoid the collection aganecy calls and it going on my credit-if it ever does….So there is some hope out there, plead financial hardship 1st at the hearing and maybe you will get lucky too!

[Reply]
Tanya Reply:
March 26th, 2011 at 6:48 pm
I got THREE in the mail today. Two from Feb 28 and one from March 1st. Not sure what I’ll do, but mightily pissed off. Although, I’ve been there a few times since that. I wonder if there are more on the way….?

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Comment by Sue | March 21st, 2011

Thank you John from LA and Dennis. No I never agreed to pay anything. So nothing has happened despite the many collections letters and calls? The RSI collections agency has my cell phone number somehow – maybe I called them from it? I don’t know. I would contest it on two levels – what the MRCA and Redflex are doing does not seem legal – and second the photo evidence doesn’t show that I’m doing anything wrong. I want video evidence and a fair hearing. I have an attorney but his fees cost more than the whole ticket – so I don’t know what to do. So your advice is not to admit any wrongdoing or agree to pay – and – just ignore collections and then sue collections agency if they put a negative mark on my credit report? I really appreciate your replies and this freedom minute site.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
March 21st, 2011 at 8:31 pm
If you want RSI to stop contacting you just send them a letter saying so and they have to stop. Search on the web for the proper wording.

By the way, even if they give you a hearing, it won’t be fair. If you didn’t completely stop, they will find you guilty. They will not accept any arguments that it wasn’t you, etc.

I’m now thinking that maybe the reason they can’t prove the debt and send it to your credit report is that they no longer have the evidence.

[Reply]
Dennis Reply:
March 21st, 2011 at 10:52 pm
its really quite simple, just ignore them. nothing happens. i wouldnt even worry about what youd do “IF” they dinged your credit. theres no reason to worry about it because they wont ding your credit.

[Reply]
Comment by John from L.A. | March 22nd, 2011

So here’s my thoughts on “the big picture” here…

The MRCA is making a boatload of cash for almost no effort — and no expenditure. The company they work with provided the camera and keeps it up and in return gets a cut of this extortion.

The MRCA sends out the tickets and the vast majority of people pay them and don’t contest it (or search the Internet for this Board). A few others are happy if get a few $$$ taken off the total. As a result, they (the MRCA) has probably decided that sending the rest to RSI for annoying collection communication is as far as they want to go. And that’s probably a smart idea.

It seems that no real class action has ever really gotten off the ground because the people who might do it aren’t really motivated to do so. The few of us who were really ticked off didn’t pay and nothing every happened. Why spend the money? Now, if the MRCA ever tried to put these things on our credit records, I think people would band together to really challenge this thing. I know I would.

It’s amazing that nobody has challenged this legally. Not only is it ridiculous as there are many ways to contest it, if it were needed (like I was waved through the stop sign by a park official just out of camera range as a big event was ending and they were trying to clear the parking lot), but they have no standing to try to put this on anyone’s record. I’d sue them, as well as the three credit reporting agencies as well if they ever did.

My credit record reflects how well I pay my obligations =– things I agreed to pay. I never agreed to pay this, nor would I.

Again, and this is going to be my last post on this subject. People just keep posting “are you sure??!?!” notes and my universal answer from here on in is this: “Read all the posts here. Nobody who ever DIDN’T pay the tickets ever got anything except a few annoying calls from a collection agency. And if this happens to you, tell them to stop and they have to by law. End of argument.”

Or… pay it if you’re antsy about it. That’s exactly what the MRCA is hoping you’ll do.

– John

[Reply]
Comment by Claudio | March 31st, 2011

At last I too received my first RSI notice of payment for $ 240.63, and was prepered to ignore it altogether, but, reading some of the posts I am a bit confused about two things: 1) Am I supposed to do anything to make explicit my disagreement and unwillingness to pay (i.e. send a letter to RCI or MRCA)? and 2) Should I be monitoring my credit report in case RCI were to denounce me as not paying my debt?

[Reply]
Comment by Barnev | March 31st, 2011

A very high level summary.

March 2010 – received my first and only $125 citation from MRCA via USPS certified mail (I ignored)

May 2010 – received a second notice from MRCA with a nonpayment fee of $37.50 for a total citation of $137.50 (I ignored)

January 2011 – received debt collection notice from RSI Enterprises, Inc. (RSI) for $171.88

February 2011 – responded to RSI, disputed debt and requested they provide proof of debt. Also, referenced the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA) that they’re legally bound by

February 2011 – received letter from RSI, stating records of citation are not available to third parties (so, reading between the lines, RSI can’t provide me proof and prove debt is valid) and providing contact information for Redflex and MRCA

March 2011 – again, responded to RSI, disputed debt and requested they provide proof of debt and referencing the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA) that they’re legally bound by

March 2011 – again, their response provides and refers to their client’s contact information and reiterates that records of my citation are not available to third parties. If they can’t provide proof of debt, it’s not my responsibility to prove (or disprove) it. How can they initiate a debt collection without proof? Violation! They lost their credibility with me

Until someone can verify that RSI can legally report this to the credit agencies, I am ignoring the scam.

[Reply]
Comment by Victoria | April 13th, 2011

I just received a ticket in the mail today and was thinking of not paying it. After reading all these posts, I’m sure I’m not paying it. Hoping to hear if anyone has problems with credit agencies. Total scam. I got my ticket at the top of topanga look out where the stop sign is about 30 yards away from the intersection. Was the stop sign put there to let drivers know to stop for traffic in the upcoming intersection, or was it put so far away to trap people into getting a ticket? Traffic laws are supposed to keep people safe; they shouldn’t just be ways for government agencies to try to fleece the public. This is madness!

[Reply]
Comment by abbey124 | April 19th, 2011

There have been 2 action filed against MRCA http://www.highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamsLawClassActMRCA.html

So fra RCMS request to dismess was denied

The actions against RCMA are:
1) Violation of Article I, Sections 7(a)
and 15 of the CA Constitution.
(2) Violation of the CA Vehicle Code.
(3) Unlawful, Unfair and Fraudulent Business Practices in Violation of CA
(4) Violation of CA Govt. Code § 11145.
(5) Violation of CA Civil Code § 52.1

I think the way to fight this is not pay and join one of the action against them or file our own.

[Reply]
John from L.A. Reply:
April 19th, 2011 at 6:20 pm
The important thing to note in that court document (http://www.highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamsLawClassActMRCA.html) is on Page 8, line 8:

The NEW wording of the Vehicle Code, Section 21 will NOW include the MRCA. This amended text becomes effect in July 2011

Reading this backwards, *UNTIL* July 2011, the MRCA *had no standing to be issuing tickets!!!!*

So EVERYONE who has posted up until now — and until July 2011 — is in the clear! Whether or not that new wording will stand the test of courts remains to be seen, but the point is ALL of the discussion here says “DON’T PAY THE TICKETS!!! THEY ARE ILLEGAL UNTIL JULY 2011!!!”

[Reply]
MK Reply:
September 2nd, 2011 at 1:24 am
So, since I got my ticket on August 2011, does this mean I have to pay the “ticket”?

I can’t fight this in any way?

[Reply]
D. Simms Reply:
May 31st, 2011 at 10:58 am
To All Citizens who were wrongfully ticketed by the MRCA:

I paid my $175.00 rip-off “ticket” for a fraudulent stop sign “violation” at Frankllin Canyon Park, because I did NOT want ANY possibility of damaging my good credit rating.

I went to a “Kangaroo Court” AT Frankin Canyon – where my correct legal arguments were disregarded.

I have subsequently filed an appeal in Van Nuys Superior Court AND contacted wonderful attorney, R. Allen Baylis at: (714) 962-0915. He has SUCCESSFULLY fought these tickets before, and he is willing to represent SEVERAL of us victims of this “money-making scam” at a very reduced fee (less than the ticket) and hopefully will get us a REFUND of our $175.00 or more – if we hire him TOGETHER as a “group”! The more Appellants, the better!

If you want JUSTICE AND YOUR MONEY BACK – PLEASE contact me SOON, at: “dsimms@socal.rr.com” and/or call attorney Baylis – who returns calls in the evening. Thank you!

In Unity,
D. Simms

[Reply]
Comment by pz | May 28th, 2011

I am not a lawyer but did some research online and recommend sending the collection agency, RSI Enterprises, the following letter via certified mail:

Regarding: MNTN REC CONSERVATION AUTHORITY
Reference #: [number]

Dear RSI Enterprises,

I have been contacted by your company about a debt you allege I owe. This is not a valid claim and I am instructing you not to contact me further in connection with this alleged debt. Under the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, you may not contact me further now that I have notified you not to do so.

Further, should your alleged claim of debt appear on my credit record I will a) report RSI Enterprises to the U.S. Federal Trade Commission, Bureau of Consumer Protection and b) sue RSI Enterprises for fraud.

Sincerely,

[Name]

[Reply]
Joanne Drummond Reply:
June 14th, 2011 at 4:10 pm
Thank you – I am using this format to send a reply to RSI to their second letter in response my first one where I have asked for proof/validation of the debt. I added in a line stating that they did not send this validation or proof and I find the debt collection is an invalid claim.

Wondering if anyone has yet to see anything on their credit report? I will let you know if we ever do and will fight it! JD

[Reply]
Comment by jen | June 1st, 2011

just wondering what will happen to me for not paying up to the MRCA? I got two tickets and got them reduced for pleading financial hardship and that i was being punished twice (withing 3 days i got 2 tickets) for the same “crime”. Huh,I was in franklin canyon both times when NOBODY was around but ouch those tickets! Although they knocked $75 off each $175 ticket, I still haven’t paid them and want to know what will happen next? Didn’t someone file a class-action lawsuit against them and if so, can I get in on it? I just want to know what to expect from creditors etc…

[Reply]
Comment by JBC | June 6th, 2011

Read this rejection of MRCA’s demurrer. It includes this:

“the court finds that MRCA has failed to show that it has an independent authority to enact traffic regulations/ordinances.” (Page 4 of the PDF.)

[Reply]
Comment by JBC | June 6th, 2011

Read this rejection of MRCA’s demurrer.
http://www.highwayrobbery.net/TrcDocsLawClassActMRCAGrantDemurrerRuling.pdf

It includes this:

“the court finds that MRCA has failed to show that it has an independent authority to enact traffic regulations/ordinances.” (Page 4 of the PDF.)

[Reply]
Comment by JBC | June 14th, 2011

Be aware that a visit to any park run by the MRCA can cost you HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS. There are hidden cameras at stop signs at $175 a pop. Unlike red light cameras, which are in front of the driver, and subject to various conditions, these are BEHIND the car and intentionally hidden from view.
One driver got SEVEN HUNDRED DOLLARS in (illegally levied) fines one on visit.
A class action suit is underway against this and a court has already ruled that “the court finds that MRCA has failed to show that it has an independent authority to enact traffic regulations/ordinances.” Which won’t stop them from putting you into collections if you resist their “administrative fines”.
Some of these parks are lovely. But many people get a little casual on rural roads. If you’re one of them, this could be a very expensive visit.

[Reply]
Comment by JBC | June 14th, 2011

Oops… Sorry. That was meant for another board.

[Reply]
Comment by Jerry | June 21st, 2011

These tickets are total BS. It’s a set up to collect revenue. I just ignored it and after a year ago it went to a collections agency. I quickly responded with a form letter to verify the creditor and warned them to only contact me by mail or place anything on my credit report unless they could provide documentation of their claim. I just received a form letter with the creditors name and address. Lazy collection agency. If this BS fine were to pop up on my credit report I would just dispute it with the credit bureau. Credit agencies have thousands of of unpaid accounts to work on and an account of a few hundred dollars is always going to be on the bottom of there pile.

[Reply]
Comment by David | August 16th, 2011

I got nailed at Topanga Canyon Overlook in May even though you need to study the video to determine if a complete stop was made or not (it was that close). Being from another state, on vacation and in a rental car, I had no idea of this scam. The MRCA Ordinance states the citation must be issued within 30 days of the violation. Mine is over two months old (August date in writing) and the Administrator for MRCA says it’s valid and will not provide a copy of the citation issued to the rental car agency within the 30 days (as they claim was done). Told me to contact the rental agency if I wanted a copy. After reading all this great input, I’m inclined to request a hearing but not pay if found guilty. The punishment ($175) far exceeds the crime, a rolling stop captured by a peeping tom system in a remote area. Sure sets the tone of the MRCA’s psyche. I like the idea of a class action but have yet to find a current status update. Also, I feel sorry for those that incurred multiple violation fines without even knowing they did anything wrong. What do the local legislators say?

[Reply]
don Reply:
August 22nd, 2011 at 12:31 am
As was stated above, it’s a OHIO credit agency scam to steal from you. They cannot force you to pay what you haven’t agreed to pay. They might as well be lifting your wallet. I recommend you throw the ‘citation’ in the trash. This is not a police enforcement action.

I’m all for taxes and being a good citizen but not this crap! Law enforcement needs to be done properly- one does have the right to face one’s accuser, or is that just SO pre-9/11?

[Reply]
Comment by don | August 22nd, 2011

I’m with John et al. I haven’t gotten a ticket in 30 years, but I must have crept/rolled through the stupid sign (the park was deserted and I was really tired) and got the ‘citation’ in the mail (of course, zero proof I was driving).

Thanks to your advice, I threw it in the trash and did the same with the second ‘notice’ (this happened back in April I think).

So far no credit agency calls. If they do, I’ll lawyer up, I’d be happy to force them to spend thousands trying to steal from me. But it’s a scam after all, there is only so far that a scammer is going to ‘push it’ when he/she steals.

I’m all for highway safety being an avid cyclist but this is surely the wrong way to go about improving it.

Thanks to my experience, I’ll never visit the park again, nor will I ever spend a dime in Santa Monica having been hit with a ‘no front license plate’ ticket (while PARKED and spending $125 on a new pair of shoes) at the 3rd st. Promenade to the tune of $35. Again, I’m all for safety but this is BS- and Santa Monica has lost my business tax revenue for good.

[Reply]
Comment by B | August 31st, 2011

So my question is what happens to those of us ticketed after July 2011?? I only ask because I got a ticket at the Topanga Canyon turnout. I remember stopping but as someone else noted, that stop sign is a good 30+ feet from the road. The picture is so dark i’m suprised they were able to make out the plate. Can they now put points on your record? Is it considered a real moving violation now? Can they chase me down? I am concerned to ignore it because this happened with a red light ticket many years ago. A friend was driving the car and we attempted to contest with the basis that it was not us driving the car. Long story short, we still had to pay the ticket and it had near tripled in price by the time we did pay it. Any advice would be helpful!!

[Reply]
Comment by MK | September 1st, 2011

I got 3 of these “tickets” on August 3rd and 4th. I have until September 30th to pay the fines.

I’ve been doing a lot of research, and read a lot of stuff. I spoke to Allen Baylis earlier today, and he said I can do either 2 things: 1) Pay him $200 to fight this for me and do a bunch of paperwork, yada yada yada… or 2) Just not pay.

He mentioned that there is a template on freedom minute for me write to the collection agency when they start harassing me, and I finally found the template here (Thanks to PZs comment on May 28th).

Anyway, I read about this Class Action Lawsuit, but then some of you guys said that the laws are in affect and that we DO have to pay.

I’m in the same boat as B (the person who commented before me), and would truly be very appreciative towards any advice on what to do.

I’m a college student for crying out loud, I don’t have the cash or the time to do anything about this!

Thanks in advance,

MK.

[Reply]
Dennis Reply:
September 2nd, 2011 at 12:27 am
It is really simple. There is nothing to think about. Just don’t pay. I haven’t paid anything in a year and 8 months. I haven’t gotten any collection letters in a long long time and nothing has happened (to my credit).

[Reply]
MK Reply:
September 2nd, 2011 at 1:21 am
But Dennis, you got your ticket WAY before July 2011. I want to know what’s gonna happen to the people who got their ticket After July 2011?

This is the situation that Me and B are in right now, and possibly hundreds of other innocent people out there being scammed by these thieves.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to just ignore this, write a letter to the harassing collect agency and not pay a penny; but I want to make sure that I can do that without my credit score being hurt and without having to pay a larger sum after my deadline (Sept 30th).

[Reply]
Comment by John from the Westside | September 2nd, 2011

Okay folks…

For the 1,000th TIME!!!!

If all of the dozens of posts here that tell you to ignore the ticket don’t do it, will one more help?

I got one of these tickets over three years ago. Refused to pay. Got one letter from a collection agency threatening my credit rating. I wrote back saying I wasn’t going to pay — ever — and if they tried to put this on my credit rating I would sue them.

Read this one more time:
YOUR CREDIT RATING IS FOR OBLIGATIONS YOU ***AGREED*** TO TAKE ON AND THEN DID NOT PAY!!!

Did you agree to pay this?

Collection agencies are in the business of collecting money. Period. They want to do the least amount of work to get their money. If lying to you will do it, they win. They are not going to risk litigation on this as there is enough contention as to these tickets’ legitimacy as to make it not a slam dunk for them. Are they going to risk going the lawyer route and blow all the money they’ve collected from saps who are easily intimidated? I think not.

BUT IF ALL OF THESE DOZENS AND DOZENS OF POSTS HERE DON’T DO IT FOR YOU, PAY THE FRIGGIN’ TICKET AND BECOME ONE OF THOSE SAPS. I DON’T CARE!!! BUT PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DON’T WRITE ONE ***MORE*** OF THESE “ARE YOU GUYS SURE????” POSTS. I’M SO TIRED OF GETTING THEM I COULD DIE.

[Reply]
Comment by Dennis | September 2nd, 2011

Agreed. Pay if you are are that worried then. I don’t see what difference it makes that you got your ticket after July 2011. But there are numerous postings on here from various people attesting to the fact that nothing untoward has happened.

We do it because we are trying to help you and also stick it to those extortionists. But for those of us trying to help it is getting a little tiresome. If you have to keep doubting… I suggest you just pay and sleep better at night.

[Reply]
Comment by JBC | September 2nd, 2011

Bear in mind that one reason they’re ending the OFFICIAL red light camera program in LA is because people weren’t paying the tickets and apparently courts wouldn’t enforce them. And that’s with an explicit authorization of this program, unlike this attempt to claim such authorization based on a self-serving reading of the law.

[Reply]
Comment by MK | September 8th, 2011

Hey guys, me again.

Sorry for taking so long to respond, been busy with school.

I’m like 90% certain that, I’m not gonna pay. That I’m gonna wait for a letter from the collection agency, and respond in the format that was posted above.

My only concern is this. Some law, or something happened, that mentions something about getting the ticket from them AFTER July 2011.

I know, you’re all gonna give me the same response, to not pay, and that you guys are tired of saying that, I get it.

But the thing is, all of you guys got your ticket WAY BEFORE July 2011. I want to know what’s going to happen to the people that got the ticket AFTER July 2011?

The person that runs freedomminute.com, I emailed him, no response. I’m not even sure when was the last time he updated this place.

I’m going to fight this, and will most likely contact another lawyer and get a 2nd opinion.

Again, if you guys can help me out with that simple question, because it will be helpful not only for me, but towards many others; that will be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

MK

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 5:59 pm
MK I never received an email from you. Regarding your question about July 2011, I’m not sure what you are referring to. The vehicle code did change and it now does have a reference to the MRCA, but it simply says that the new wording doesn’t prevent them from doing that which they were previously permitted to do, so it effectively changes nothing. The MRCA previously claimed they had the right to use photo enforcement for stop signs and they still claim this. You will need a judge to agree with you that they don’t.

The change in the law should have no effect on what happens if you ignore the ticket.

However, there are other arguments that people have been using to fight the tickets. I can’t explain it all here right now because I am still gathering info but if get that together, I will post it. Based on every post here from people who have ignored their tickets, that may still be the best chance you have of not having to pay anything.

[Reply]
MK Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 9:23 pm
I read somewhere at after July 31st, 2011, if you get the ticket you have to pay for it.

My ticket is due in less than 2 weeks. If I ignore the ticket, they’ll most likely get a Collection Agency to come after me with either a phone call or mail. They can’t threaten to report this to the credit bureau because this isn’t a debt that I agreed to pay for.

The 19th comment gave a template on what to email the Collection Agency. I think that I may have a better template.

Can I please get your email, so I can email you the template? I’d like to hear your thoughts on what you think of it.

Also, what do you mean that the vehicle code now has reference to the MRCA? Does this mean that I HAVE TO pay the ticket? I just didn’t understand this part of what you said: “The vehicle code did change and it now does have a reference to the MRCA, but it simply says that the new wording doesn’t prevent them from doing that which they were previously permitted to do, so it effectively changes nothing. ”

I’m gonna try and find your email and I will be emailing you within a few minutes and hope to hear from you soon. If I can’t find your email and if you don’t receive anything from me, can you please post your email?

Thank you!

Mk

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
September 19th, 2011 at 12:28 am
To answer your question more specifically,

CVC 21 now has a section that reads:

(b) To the extent permitted by current state law, this section does not impair the current lawful authority of the Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority, a joint powers authority, or any member agency constituted therein as of July 1, 2010, to enforce an ordinance or resolution relating to the management of public lands within its jurisdiction.

However, the court in the class action suit had this to say in one of its rulings:

In synthesizing these statutes and reading them in context, the Court is not persuaded by MRCA’s position that it may, carte blanche, enforce its own ordinances where those ordinances would otherwise violate the California Vehicle Code. Part of the problem is that the amended §21(b) does not further define the term “management of public lands.” Under the amended version of §21, MRCA’s argument is not persuasive. If the Legislature had expressly defined the term “management of public lands” … the result may be different.

… The reasonable, plain-meaning interpretation is that the amended version of §21(b) only allows MRCA to enforce its ordinances relating to the management of public lands if MRCA’s authority is already permitted by current state law. Absent an express exemption (as required under §21(a)) … the Vehicle Code is applicable and uniform throughout California.

So simply put, the court is not persuaded that this new language changes anything with respect to the MRCA’s authority to use stop sign cameras. And we agree.

[Reply]
Comment by Liz Rizzo | September 18th, 2011

Just wanted to say thank you for this post. I paid the $175 and went to the hearing – I suspected it would be futile, but between the injustice and the amount, I certainly couldn’t imagine *not* going. I blogged about my experience here:
http://bit.ly/ri8UtQ
Now I think I’m not going to be able to file the appeal. I thought I could figure out how to file and just pay the $25 mentioned here, but I see that it’s fairly complex, and I can’t afford $200 for a lawyer – I can’t afford the $175! That’s my grocery and gas money for two weeks.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
It is not complex to appeal. I have the paperwork and will email it with the court instructions to anyone who contacts me through the contact form on this site.

[Reply]
Comment by MK | September 18th, 2011

So, I couldn’t find your email, can you please post it?

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
September 19th, 2011 at 12:38 am
There is a link that says “Contact” at the top of every page.

[Reply]
MK Reply:
September 19th, 2011 at 1:31 am
Yeah, I found it afterwards. I messaged you the letter that I plan to send to the Collection Agency if and when they contact me asking for the money.

Did you happen to get that email/message?

MK

[Reply]
Comment by NotPayingIt | October 3rd, 2011

Ok, I received my ticket dated August 2011, which is after this mythical July 2011 date. I’m NOT paying this, they can f**kin blow me. I will report my experiences to follow.

People…..DON’T PAY THIS RIDICULOUS EXTORTION!

There are NO warning signs, NO proof of who was driving the car, and I have yet to hear of ONE case where the park proved the reliability of their photo camera equipment.

People…..DON’T PAY THIS RIDICULOUS EXTORTION!
People…..DON’T PAY THIS RIDICULOUS EXTORTION!
People…..DON’T PAY THIS RIDICULOUS EXTORTION!

[Reply]
missionmac Reply:
October 12th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
Got mine in the same month.
Wondering if ANYONE knows or has heard of someone actually having their credit affected by this at all?

[Reply]
pz Reply:
October 12th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
No one has had their credit affected by this. The reason is that if MRCA ever did affect people’s credit then they would anger people so much that a real class action lawsuit would ensue. As it stands now MRCA gets most people to pay the fine and they let people who do not pay the fine go without consequence. I refused to pay the fine and sent the following letter to the collection agency in May 2011:

Regarding: MNTN REC CONSERVATION AUTHORITY
Reference #: [number]

Dear RSI Enterprises,

I have been contacted by your company about a debt you allege I owe. This is not a valid claim and I am instructing you not to contact me further in connection with this alleged debt. Under the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, you may not contact me further now that I have notified you not to do so.

Further, should your alleged claim of debt appear on my credit record I will a) report RSI Enterprises to the U.S. Federal Trade Commission, Bureau of Consumer Protection and b) sue RSI Enterprises for fraud.

Sincerely,

[Name]

I have not heard anything from MRCA or RSI Enterprises since sending this letter and my credit has not been affected.

MRCA’s tickets are a scam and everyone should refuse to pay their fines.

[Reply]
missionmac Reply:
October 12th, 2011 at 3:18 pm
Thanks PZ. Yeah, reading all these are very helpful. Question… did you send this to RSI after they sent you a letter…or before they could even contact you?

[Reply]
pz Reply:
October 12th, 2011 at 3:26 pm
In answer to your question missionmac: first you ignore the notice from MRCA, second you wait several months until you get the collection letter from RSI Enterprises, third you send the letter above to RSI. That should end the hassles from MRCA and you should not have any consequences. The only potential consequence is that RSI will report this so it hurts your credit rating, but as everyone on this board has shown, RSI has not done that to anyone. I dare them to do so.

[Reply]
missionmac Reply:
October 12th, 2011 at 9:24 pm
Thanks again. I’ll follow your steps, for sure. Screw ‘em.

[Reply]
missionmac Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 11:16 am
PZ, just following up… did you get a 2nd “default notice” from MRCA threatening possible civil proceedings before you got contacted by RSI?
Your last message was a couple months ago….still no contact from RSI?
Thanks

[Reply]
PZ Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 11:34 am
Hi Mission Mac, In answer to your question: I don’t recall getting a second notice but it is possible. Either way I think the process is the same as I described in my previous post.

[Reply]
missionmac Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 4:53 pm
thanks again. so, still no more contact from MRCA or RSI?

[Reply]
Comment by B | October 13th, 2011

Thank you everyone who has continued to comment on this topic and give additional information. I did not pay my ‘ticket’ and am waiting to receive the letter from the collection agency. I will definitely be sending that letter the moment I receive it. Sadly, this ‘ticket’ has caused us to not frequent the state parks in Los Angeles as much as we used to.

[Reply]
Comment by FM | October 20th, 2011

Hi guys,

Thanks for all this useful info! I’ve read each post with interest. I just received TWO of these citations – from the same day in Franklin Canyon!! On my birthday no less – September 2011. About 1hr 45 mins apart.

My fear (apart from being your regular goody-two-shoes and not wanting to get in trouble & get bad credit!) is that I’m British – I’m here on a working visa, and I am somewhat paranoid that if I don’t pay, they’re going to hunt me down and throw me out of the country!!

Does anyone have any advice on what rights I might have regarding non-payment of citations such as these, as a non-US citizen (though it’s worth mentioning that I’m classed as a US citizen for tax purposes)…?

Thanks in advance!

[Reply]
Comment by Steve | October 22nd, 2011

I just got a MRCA ticket (Sept. 2011) in Franklin Canyon. Is there any update as to if we need to pay these tickets or not?

[Reply]
pz Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 4:14 pm
I know of nothing that has changed. I strongly suggest that you do not pay the ticket. See comment thread 36 above for my recommendation.

[Reply]
Comment by Hugh | October 25th, 2011

Hello,
I got a ticket for parking on the street near a hiking spot in Malibu from MRCA for violation 12 “Obey Street /Curb Markings. There was a fire hydrant about 20 feet away from me with a no parking sign. There were 6 other cars on the street and none of them got tickets.
I was in a rental car and I am from Florida. I called and requested a citation review form which I will fill out and return. My question is, because I was in a rental car, will the ticket follow me to Florida?
Regardless I will fight the citation because it was random and clearly incorrect. An obvious tourist tax.
Thanks for your site!
Hugh

[Reply]
Comment by Jesse | November 29th, 2011

To the “alien” (the official word for non-citizens) in #38, this should have no effect on your immigration status. Your wanton, reckless, anti-social and demonic behavior in our beloved parklands is not being charged as a crime or terrorism, it is not going on your driving record, and a mere dispute about a “debt” is not a violation of any immigration status. Anyhow, if they change their minds about the terrorism, there is no evidence that it was you driving the car.;-)

[Reply]
Comment by Blake | December 6th, 2011

I unfortunately just got one of these tickets while visiting the parks. While I’m tempted to not pay, it’s clear from internet research (i.e., articles on reputable news sites) that many municipalities and cities are turning parking tickets over to collection agencies and they note specifically that it will affect your credit score.

The whole premise given here for not paying is that the debts on your credit score are agreed to be paid by you. So, are cities and municipalities written about in these articles able to officially create these debts and the MRCA isn’t?

To be clear, I don’t doubt the statements being made that these are hollow threats and nothing happens to your credit score, but just wondering the difference.

Here’s two links to stories as an example:

http://moneyland.time.com/2011/11/03/feed-the-meter-save-your-credit-score/

http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-unpaid-parking-tickets-can-wreck-your-credit-score-20111116,0,5887698.story

[Reply]
Comment by juice | December 6th, 2011

One reason Los Angeles is turning off their red light cameras is because they have NOT been able to report unpaid tickets to credit ratings agencies. As I understand it, one issue with driving (as opposed to parking) is proving who was at the wheel at the time. Since the MRCA intentionally hides the cameras BEHIND the car (despite their claim that they want to improve safety, when visible cameras would act as more of a deterrent), they have no photo of the driver. I’m guessing this makes it dicey for them to report the ticket to a credit bureau.
Otherwise, has anyone received a robo-call, with a recorded voice announcing that it’s from a collection agency?

[Reply]
Comment by anna | December 11th, 2011

Hi All,

I got my stop light ticket from Franklin Canyon in August of this year. Ignored it after reading this website. Now just today, I received a notice from MRCA (not RSI) saying that I must immediately pay PLUS an additional late fee.

Is this standard? I was hoping if another letter would come, it would be from RSI so I could write them back a threat like many of you on here have done.

Where do I go from here?

Many thanks.

[Reply]
missionmac Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 4:58 pm
I just got the same 2nd letter from MRCA. I SO want to continue ignoring it and wait for RSI to send a letter…but I’m freaked out…more about potential harassing collection calls. Have you done any more research about this?

[Reply]
anna Reply:
December 14th, 2011 at 6:31 pm
Decided to stick it to the man and I think you should do the same! I’m not paying! I hope they DO call now, so I can threaten them so THEY will stop threatening me. This whole entire thing is a scam and reading this whole site got me infuriated. Don’t pay! These are essentially fake tickets for all I am concerned (and from what my research says….especially a few of the residents I spoke to who live around the parks)

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
December 14th, 2011 at 8:41 pm
Nice. I’m with ya.

[Reply]
PZ Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 5:43 pm
Hi Anna,

See comment thread #36 above for an answer to your question.

PZ

[Reply]
anna Reply:
December 14th, 2011 at 6:32 pm
Thanks PZ! I agree that #36 says it all!

[Reply]
Comment by JB | December 11th, 2011

Well I too got a ticket a couple years ago and was threaten with all the phones calls and letters… One day after getting home from a 14 hour shift at work (active duty military) I received a call from RSI at 845 at night. So I searched the company online and found some legal doc with with the CEO and other higher-ups in the company. I use a people looked-up application and got the CEO home number. Now it was around 9 at night and and he lived in Arizona. I called his home, his wife answered I nonchalantly asked for him by first name like I was a friend and she said okay hold I’ll get him… So when he answered I said hello, he said who is this, I said Jason and begun to tell him how I am tired of his company swearing and yelling at my wife and all the late nights calls and harassing messages and that I will never pay and his company is a scam. He said how did I get his number and it was late and I shouldn’t call his house. I said that’s funny. I say the same things every time you guys call me at home. Since that day I have not received another call or letter. I’m suggesting any of you do this I’m just throwing this out there.

[Reply]
anna Reply:
December 11th, 2011 at 10:17 pm
Bravo!

[Reply]
FC Reply:
February 16th, 2012 at 9:15 am
I LOVED your comment, JB. I think I will follow suit. I will NOT pay and wait to be harassed and then hound back. What a scam!

And I thought to myself that day that I wanted to support the park and pay for the parking instead of parking on the street and walking in. If enough people get these tickets, no one will want to park in the lot. The state will lose money. It’s so counter productive.

[Reply]
Comment by MK | December 12th, 2011

Nice JB!

You wouldn’t happen to still have the number or somehow be able to post it here so others (such as myself), can take advantage of it, can you?

Anyway, I posted in September about them sending me a letter to pay. I ignored it.

They sent a second letter with additional fees. I ignored that too.

Now I’m just waiting for the collection agency to contact me, so I can tell them to fuck off.

I’m a college student, I can’t afford these, not do I have any assets or money; goodluck on getting your money MRCA, you lying bastards!

[Reply]
Comment by ThanksEveryone | December 28th, 2011

Thank y’all so much for voicing your experiences and opinions. Just to respond in kind, I received the standard $175-190-240 trio of notices and was ready to write both MRCA and RSI scathing letters today. I figured a little Internet research first wouldn’t hurt and found this great resource.

Truthfully, the third letter from the collection agency made me waver a bit and wonder if I should just pay and be done with it, but this forum gave me my confidence back. Bottom line, something is dreadfully wrong with this process and I am not going to be a part of it.

The only thing I’m considering now is whether to write letters to them requesting an apology and a reimbursement of 44 cents for postage.

[Reply]
Comment by Gretchen the Gardener | January 11th, 2012

Thanks Jon from the Westside and freedomminute.com for all the great advice.
My car was ticketed at Temescal Canyon on New Years Day.
I can just imagine how many bogus stop sign tickets were generated that day! shame on MRCA.

I’m not sure if “contesting the imposition of the penalty” (MRCA language) is a good idea as a “teachable moment” for the driver in question or not… who knows? I may encourage a lawyer in family… well, that said, I may be asking for your help if we decide to contest this..
& FYI: I may be dating myself here but..Franklin Canyon used to be referred to as The Emerald Forest. So weird.

[Reply]
Comment by MK | January 12th, 2012

Gretchen, don’t contest it, don’t bother getting a lawyer, and most of all, don’t pay!

I got 3, count em, Three Tickets from the MRCA on September 2011, for not stopping on August 2011. I didn’t pay the fine.

In October, I got 3 more notices, with each penalty increased; and talk of getting a collection agency on me.

I still didn’t pay.

It’s been 3 months, and I haven’t heard word from those bastards. They’re liars, they’re corrupt, and what they’re doing is a complete scam.

Whatever you do..

Don’t Pay!!

[Reply]
Comment by Beth | January 17th, 2012

Back in March of 2011, I was at “Top of Topanga”. I received a stop sign violation ticket from these folks. It felt like a scam from the beginning. I was glad to find this blog, because I was certain the ticket was bogus. I ignored all correspondence from them, I didn’t even keep the paperwork. I tossed it out. I have recently been getting strange calls from RSI, but they’ve never left any voice mails. I finally called them back and told them to quit calling me. The guy on the phone was a jerk, of course, and tried to intimidate me by yelling and shouting. It’s a bunch of lies and they have no way of collecting from me. Even after ten months, there’s no mark on my credit report.

I highly suggest to all folks to keep your money in your wallet and don’t stress about your credit worthiness.

Good luck,
Beth

[Reply]
Comment by Kevin | January 19th, 2012

Hello Fellow Park Lovers!
Thank you so much for your input and thanks to Freedom Minute for allowing us to stay informed and gather in numbers necessary to stand up to tyranny. My wife and I took our 3 dogs to Will Rogers Park one December evening at dusk. The park was deserted. No sooner had we unloaded the troops when a park ranger came barreling up out of nowhere, screeched to a stop, and started to ream us out for being in the park when it was closed. It was all quite dramatic. We had no idea the park was closed. The entrance was open, as usual, and the concept of the woods being ‘closed’ had never occurred to us. If there is a sign to that effect, it wasn’t visible in the dark. Anyway, long story short we loaded the hounds back in the truck, drove off and never thought about again until… the infamous MRCA ticket showed up in the mail about a week ago. Ridiculous! I stop at the stop signs out of force of habit. There may have been a California roll in there somewhere, but aside from the foul tempered ranger’s pick-up, we saw no other vehicles in the park. Thanks to this blog WE WILL DEFINITELY NOT PAY. The stop-light camera tickets were deemed invalid and voluntary for one reason – at least half the ‘violators’ didn’t pay and it would have been too costly for the city to collect. If we, as fellow citizens, never have the courage to stand up to what is wrong with our society, how can we ever expect things to change? Besides, they have no legal ground to stand on. “BADGES! WE DON’T NEED NO STINKING BADGES” – Al Pacino, ‘Scarface’

[Reply]
Comment by Dan | January 23rd, 2012

Somebody has got to do something about RSI Enterprises, Inc. That is the collection agency to which the claim for my unpaid fine went. I almost buckled and paid when they implied my credit score would take a hit! Thank God I found the comment section here! I have had debt go into collections before because I lost my job in late 2010, but these punks at RSI weren’t even 1/10th as polite as legitimate debt collectors (who in my experience are far more understanding of people losing their jobs due to the economy than the scumbags at RSI who are simply participating in a scam). DON’T PAY! These punks have no legs to stand on!

[Reply]
Comment by Artemis | January 28th, 2012

I got one of these tickets at Temescal Canyon after a visit back in November. The sad thing is, I only drove into the parking lot to turn around, because at that intersection U-turns aren’t allowed. Upon further inspection of the stop signs at the park, they seem perfectly placed to catch people doing just that: coming into the park for just a second. There are no stop signs at reasonable places, i.e. next to the one actual crosswalk the park has (which seems to negate their “pedestrian safety” argument). I visit this park at least twice a week, and at every visit I watch to see how many people “blow through” their stop signs. Folks, it’s almost EVERYONE. Hardly anyone comes to a full stop at those signs. The MRCA is making a fortune if all those poor souls are paying this “administrative citation.”

I didn’t pay mine and I don’t intend to. At this point, I’m just curious to see what happens next. I’ve also had some fun imagining some deliberate pranks played on the camera, but I won’t mention them here, lest I actually decide to try them!

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record Pissed | January 30th, 2012

Short forum, *here* LINK:
http://www.freedomminute.com/blog/state-government/faq-about-mrca-stop-sign-tickets/

Long forum *there* LINK:
http://www.freedomminute.com/blog/state-government/the-100-stop-sign-scam/comment-page-6/

I got one of these Franklin park gangster ‘notice to pay’ demand letters from MRCA. The alledged violation happened on sunday July 25, video tape reviewed & issued 8-16-10 by MRCA ranger #564T Mr. TScattaglia, and recieved by common mail 8-18-10….(NOTE: They didn’t waste much time, now did they ?)
In this ODD notice it strangely says, “As you can see from the photos to the right, a vehicle registered in your name and described below *appears* to have failed to come to a complete stop.” AND What ????!!! “appears” ???? No officer was involved at the time of the alledged violation. If you do your Internet homework on this matter here- LINK:
http://www.highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamsticket.htm#NotMe
IMHO: They don’t have a driver’s photo enclosed in this notice so the identity of the accual car driver at Franklin Park is unknown and sending this matter to the registered owner is not enough. Especially, when in the USA you have the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty in court of law AND have the right of personally confronting your accurser in a court of law. No photo of defendant driver, no law officer personally seeing the alledged violation…. This is unethical, illlegal, and fraud. Other legitamate law enforcement departments have cameras notices that have to include car license, photo intersection, and photo of the driver at the wheel at the time of possible violation. They are ticketing the car not the person for the alledged violation. As to sending this onto a collection agencies, those are heavily regulated against harassing you by phone or letter due to federal laws governing that abuse. Also about reporting to this matter to your credit record, this is so small and so questionable as to negligible. And you can fight those bogus entries with the credit agencies. I was going to fight this just because it’s a clear case of law enforcement abuse.

I want to make them work for their $175 admission fee to visit their park and I might be up for some guerilla tactics to cause some nuisance to the park of staff there. I’m up for report this to governement offcials, BBB, and everyone in Beverly Hills maybe it’s an election year for some?? VOTE ‘EM OUT! Up the rebels on this….. !!
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David Goldstien did a news piece on this matter—-
I’m David Goldstein’s TV news producer.
When you get a chance, can you call me to talk about your ticket? My number is 818 – 655 – 2441

Nicolette Medina
Producer
CBS2/KCAL9 TV Los Angeles

4200 Radford Ave.
Studio City, CA 91604
818.655.2441
818.655.2440 fax
nmedina@cbs.com
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Tell the MCRA folks what you think of this ticket racket, face to face in Thousand Oaks on 2:05 PM in ‘public comment’ time !! OR you call call them or write them directly with this info.

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Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority
Governing Board Meeting- weds, current date are available through email requests.

Notice is given pursuant to Govt Code ss54956 that the governing board of the MRCA will hold a ***special meeting on Weds Sept 1 ’10(DATED) at 2:05 PM at Conejo Recreation and Park District; 403 West Hillcrest Drive, Thusand Oaks, CA.***

Special Agenda:
1. Call to order
2. roll call
3. public testimony on all agenda items and public comment on matters not on the agenda.
4. Consideration of resolution requesting gubernatorial approval of AB 2554 (Brownley)
5. Closed session

MRCA may hold a closed session on the following items pursuant to Govt Code ss 54956.8 and 54956.9 Confindetial memoranda related to these items may be considered during such closed session discussions.

Conferance with legal counsel. Number of cases (10) 1. Robings v. Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy and Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority, Case No LC077488; 2. Robings v. Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy and Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority, Case No BC377233; 3. Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy and Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority v. City of Malibu, and related litigation; 4. City of Malibu v. Robings v. Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy and Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority; 5. Pfaff v. Bess, Case No 56-2007-00308501;6. Pfaff v. Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority; 7. City of Malibu v. California Coastal Commission, Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy, Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority Case No BS121650; 8/ Friends of Temescal Poll v. Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy and Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority, Case No BC405252; 9. Malibu-Encinal Homeowners Assoc v. Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority BC 431798 and 10. Estwick v. Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority BC434783.

Annoucement of Future meetings and adjournment

MRCA Special Agenda: Sept 1 2010(DATED)

**Public comment is welcome on any agenda item and matters not on a agenda.** During the meeting the Governing Board may hold a closed session on any item pursuant to Govt Cade ss 54956.8 and 54956.9. **Unless otherwise ordered, individuals will be allowed THREE minute to speak and representatives of organizations/.agencies will be givien FIVE minutes.** For further information on any agenda item plaes contact Rorie Skei, Chief Deputy Executive Officer, at 310-589-3230, Ext #112.

NOTE: The entire agenda package and meeting related writings or documents provided to a majority of the Board members after distirbution of the agenda package, unless exempt from disclosure pursuant to Calif Law will be available at the Conejo Recreation and Park Distict Officies, 403 West Hillcrest Drive, Thousand Oaks, Calif. ***Any questions reguarding tiems on MRCA agenda contact Board Secretary at 310-589-3230 ext #118.***
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I work in video and editing….the tape looked like it was 2x actual speed or sped up. The brake lights were clearly on for stopping. Speeded up my ‘stop’ could look non-existant to anyone. I don’t trust a non-human accuser and now I have to prove myself innocent? That’s not the American way. They have to prove me wrong and I have a right to confront my accuser who saw the violation, NOT a defective or manipulated camera.
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NEW meeting notice of the **Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy** on Monday, September 27, 2010.(DATED)

Monday- Sept 27, 2010(DATED)
TIME- 7:30 pm meeting convenes, public testimony 8:00 pm
PLACE: Los Angeles River Center and Gardens,
570 West Avenue 26
Los Angeles, CA 90065

PHONE 323-221-8900
FAX 323-221-9001
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Saw the KCBS new’s piece. It was a helpful and precise in saying this matter is illegal in CA. The park official interviewed was sadly and woefully uninformative and confused.
I found another San Fernando Valley Blog mentioning these illegal stop-sign cameras LINK:
http://tourthevalley.blogspot.com/2009/04/beware-traffic-cam-trap.html
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This very small citation fee(relatively compared to other credit card charges) will not adversely effect your credit. I was inmformed that any fee’s under $800 can be selectively reported but will not accepted by credit companies. And also, you can fight those selectively reported fees should it be erroneously into your own file should it get there(Federal fairness laws), easily by contacting the credit keeping companies with an explanation. This citation fee is so highly questionable as to be a joke and only paid by the fear oriented, naive or gullible or financially affluent. I can’t.
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Daily News, LINK:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_stop_sign_cameras

Stop-sign cameras catch Calif. drivers off guard
=
LINK:
http://www.highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamscameras.htm

RED LIGHT CAMERAS
http://www.highwayrobbery.net
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Know your MCRA opposition and their tactics on this matter:

Doug McIntirer’s news article LINK:
http://www.dailynews.com/columnists/ci_16260945
“A few years back I opened my property tax bill only to find a $40 per year “brush clearance” fee from something called the MRCA. Having never heard of the MRCA I poked around and discovered it’s the Mountains Recreation Conservation Authority, an offshoot of the SMMC, the Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy. I also learned the $40 dollar “fee” would be on my tax bill for the next 30 years!

My poking led to Joe Edmiston, and Joe doesn’t like being poked. Edmiston generally keeps a low profile, no easy task for a man nearly as large as the mountains he lords over…”

Snipped for brevity..

“The SMMC was created by the California Legislature to preserve open space in the Santa Monica Mountains, an honorable objective. However, Edmiston – the SMMC’s only director in its 30-year history – is a classic example of absolute power corrupting absolutely. Unelected and unanswerable to the public whose money he spends and rights he tramples, Joe has a badge and a gun and runs his multi-billion dollar public trust like the eco-totalitarian he is. Edmiston created the MRCA on his own authority as the money-generating engine for the SMMC. All those millions of acres he’s bullied from private hands require cash to maintain, which has always been Joe’s Achilles heel. So he created his own election districts, hired his own ballot counters, ran a vote-by-mail election in June of 2002, saddling hundreds of thousands of homeowners with the bill. But that wasn’t enough, so now he’s snapping your picture at $175 a pop. What about fairness? Joe decides what’s fair. He answers to no one, not even the politicians whose names he puts on parklands we paid for.”
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Joe must Go LINK:
http://www.fiveshock.com/joemustgo/

Forums LINK:
http://www.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?user=joemustgo
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Background on Joe Edmiston article (You can post your comments after the article) LINK:
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/JOE+EDMISTON'S+35,000+ACRES+MAKE+HIM+KING+OF+THE+MOUNTAINS%3B…-a083614837

JOE EDMISTON’S 35,000 ACRES MAKE HIM KING OF THE MOUNTAINS; CONSERVANCY DIRECTOR BUILDS EMPIRE, BUT MAKES ENEMIES ALONG THE WAY.(You can post your comments after the article)
===

Video with Mr. Edmiston LINK:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-8bd4KPPLo

Crisis Summit to Save L.A. Parks: Joe Edmiston, Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy
(**Writer’s NOTE: IN this video- Notice how Unelected and unanswerable Mr. Edmiston the only director in its 30-year history is instructing others how to beat the fair & open democratic govt. oversight system to get control over public lands put into his private control.)
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Not all artifically fees called ‘unpaid debts’ are accepted by credit report companies. Please google this and stop the scare tactics. You are innocent, until PROVEN guilty in the USA. This citiation should be enforced like a ‘moving violation’; NOT LIKE a scam parking ticket- so it’s an illegal citation. Your credit record can be easily corrected with this petty questionable and illegal stuff credit ‘dings’ like this once you take action. The out-of-state creditors cannot hound you for payment or attack your good credit record.

***ALSO vote “NO” on ANY NEW state parks Proposions in Calif, if Prop passes; our car registrations will INCREASE $15 per car you curretnly own and this additional million of $$$’s ‘boondaggle’ goes to parks departments is hugely unnecessary due to these thousands of unscrupulous illegal stop-sign camera’s sending ‘prove yourself innocent’ administrative citations. Parks don’t need more money, they just need to cut the fraud, waste, and ridiculously large staff’s salaries paid to beaurcrats who don’t do real work in the parks.
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MUST SEE Internet Link. Automated Traffic Ticket and Parking Meters scam are happing all over Calif. People are gedtting smart and fighting back. Parking Meter racket in Los Angeles County, video LINK: http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Blogs/91.php
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City Councilperson Wendy Gruel(sp?), LA city council JUST LOOKED into their traffic light automated ticket cameras and was shocked to find that they were established in councilperson’s districts as revenue enhandsment(money making) devices against public taxpaying licensed LA drivers and NOT PLACED at exta dangerous traffic intersections as everyone previously thought and the lie was told by city officials to the council. LA is needlessly increasing their cameras to 86, doubling their number….
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Do Not pay. They are using scare tactics on the naive and gullible. You are innocent UNTIL proven guilty, UNLESS YOU ADMIT YOUR OWN GUILT BY PAYING THIS CITATION. Fight on!
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This Thurs eve- Jan 20th 2011(DATED), in the Los Angeles area, KCET’s TV show ‘SoCal Connected’ will explor the use or misuse of red light automated cameras in our cities. See your local Tv show schedule for the channel and times. (#28 at 9pm thursday in LA)
PS……If people want a ‘recap’ of these issues try:
1. read the post comments here
2. read the Internet LINKS posted here.
3. google this matter and read.
4. read, read, read, read.
It’s that simple. Come on !
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It’s time again…..See the other posts for specifics.
SMMC meeting notice and agenda on Monday, February 28, 2011(DATED).
Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy
Ramirez Canyon Park, Malibu
(310) 589-3200, ext. 118
yeramian@smmc.ca.gov
boardsec@smmc.ca.gov
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TO quash or quell those victims worrying obcessently about their credit report being victimized by the MCRA and their trolls, here is the official US govt website explaining your rights against the trolls that wish to tarnish your credit reports over such ‘questionable’ matters. The federal Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) protects you. You must do the reading at internet LINK: http://www.ftc.gov/credit
Or write to Consumer Response Center, Room 130-A Federal Trade Commission 600 Pennsyvania Ave, N.W. Washington D.C. 20580

You may have MORE rights under Stae Law: contact your state or local consumer protection agency or your state Attorney General.

You have the right to:

*Know what’s in your file.
*Know what information has been used against you.
*Know your credit score.
*Dispute incomplete or inaccurate information.
*Require of consumer reporting agencies must correct or delete inaccurate, incomplete, or unverifiable information.
*Require of consumer agencies may not report outdated negative information.
*Seek damages from violators.
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George Washington spoke of taking ‘action’ instead of stopped at ‘words’. People need to take action in ways that they are comfortable with this corruption issue.
PS… Why is it the loudest ‘boos’ always come from those in the free peanut gallery seats. (Or are you secretly with the MRCA?)
Oh well….I would start a public informational protest event passing out flyers right next to the idiot camera postions wearing a BIG orange safety vest making damn sure no one that day gets a fake ticket. Action, not words! Call the news media and get coverage for the event! Embarrassing for MRCA, huh? NO money for MRCA, no reason to have cameras there.
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I got some high power legal advice on these red stop sign camera video tickets. TWO lawyers, Steve Solomon & Ralph Jamieson told me this ticket is BOGUS or ‘Mickey Mouse’. Ralph heard of these phoney matters. Don’t bother with it because you are innocent until proven guilty in a court and you have a right to face & cross examine your accuser…BOTH things MRCA don’t do with this system. FINISHED!

For those who live in Los Angeles getting Time Warner cable TV- ‘Legal Help Live’ , a live phone call-in show for legal issues, hosted by Steve Solomon & Ralph Jamieson airs WEds, 4-5 pm, LA City channel #36, public access cable. It airs every other Weds. starting in 2012 on January 17th.

SOLOMON, SALTSMAN & JAMIESON
426 Culver Boulevard
Playa Del Rey, California 90293
Phone: 310-822-9848
Fax: 310-822-3512
Email: reception@ssjlaw.com
Website: http://www.ssjlaw.com
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Many of the small parks are closing because lack of money from the State, county, or city. Its seems the Joe Edminston of the MRCA has found a more stable money stream from these ganster unethical video camera means of strong-arming the people silly enough to try to use these parks by driving into them throough these ticket traps. Don’t feed the monster and protest this illegal money solicitation from shadey anomymous charlatan means.
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Where are ALL of you complainers, talkers, and ‘I won’t pay this’ people like ‘Kenny’ & all ??!!
Will anyone see you at this meeting ??!!
I fully realize good people are working during the day at 2 PM, but maybe that is how these MRCA gangster folks get away with their scam for many years now.
How about asking them for a special evening public meeting for once and then legions of voters fed up with this scam show up? Just a thought….

The regular MRCA meeting is on Wednesday, February 1, 2012 at 2pm.

Corresponding meeting agenda materials can be found online by using the following link: http://www.mrca.ca.gov/attachment.asp?agendaid=219
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IS THIS AN AGENCY TOO BIG AND MILKING THE TAXPAYER? TOO BIG TO FAIL ??!! USE THEM AT YOUR OWN RISK !!!!!! YOU COULD BE CITED NEXT !!!

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MRCA is HUGE and is uncontrolable !!!!

Board MRCA members:

George Lange, Chair

Jerome C. Daniel, Vice Chair

Ed Hayduk

Jim Hasenauer

The Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority (MRCA) is a local government public entity established in 1985 pursuant to the Joint Powers Act.
The MRCA is a local partnership between the ‘Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy’, (a state agency established by the Legislature), and the ‘Conejo Recreation and Park District’ and the ‘Rancho Simi Recreation and Park District’ both of which are local park agencies established by the vote of the people in those communities.
The MRCA is dedicated to the preservation and management of local open space and parkland, watershed lands, trails, and wildlife habitat. The MRCA manages and provides ranger services for almost 60,000 acres of public lands and parks that it owns and that are owned by the ‘Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy’ or other agencies and provides comprehensive education and interpretation programs for the
public.
The MRCA works in cooperation with the ‘Conservancy’ and other local government partners to acquire parkland, participate in vital planning processes, and complete major park improvement projects. The MRCA provides natural resources and scientific expertise, critical regional planning services, park construction services, park operations, fire prevention, ranger services, educational and
leadership programs for thousands of youth each year, and is one of the lead agencies providing for the revitalization of the Los Angeles River.

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The ‘Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy’ was established by the California State Legislature in 1980. Since that time, it has helped to preserve over 60,000 acres of parkland in both wilderness and urban settings, and has improved more than 114
public recreational facilities throughout Southern California.
The Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy zone covers an area from the edge of the Mojave Desert to the Pacific Ocean. The zone encompasses the whole of the Santa Monica Mountains, the Simi Hills, the Verdugo Mountains and significant portions
of the Santa Susana and San Gabriel Mountains.
In addition, the ‘Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority’ also owns or manages thousands of acres in the Sierra Pelona Mountains and in the Whittier-Puente Hills. From north to south, these areas drain into the Santa Clara River, Calleguas Creek, numerous smaller coastal watersheds in the Santa Monica Mountains, and the Los Angeles River and Rio Hondo.

‘Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy’ is in Balwin Hills, Los Padres National Forest and adj parks, Lower LA river parks, San Gabriel Mts, Santa Monica Mts, Santa Susana Mts, Simi Hills, Upper Santa Clara River, Urban LA River Parks, Valley LA River Parks, Verdugo & San Rafael Mts, Whitter/Puenta Hills.
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‘Conejo Recreation and Park District’ is Banyan Park, Beyer park, Borchard community Center and Park, Canada Park, Chumash Indian Museum, Community pool at Cal Lutheran University, Conejo Community Center and Park, Conejo Creek Equestrian Center and North & South Parks, Conejo Creek Southwest Park, Conejo Valley Botanical Gardens, Crowley House, Cypress park, Dog Park, Dos Vientos Community
Center and Park and Neighborhood Center, Dos Vientos Playfield, El Parque de La Paz, Estella Park, Evenstar Park, Fiore Playfield, Glenwood Park, Goebel Senior Adult Center, Hickory Park, Hillcrest Center, Kimber Park, Lang Ranch Community Park and Neighborhood Center, Lynn Oaks Park, McCrea Ranch, Newbury Gateway Park, Newbury Park High School Park, North Ranch Neighborhood Center, North ranch
Playfield, Northwood Park, oakbrook Neighborhood Park, Oakbrook Regional Park, Old Meadows Center/therapy Center, Old Meadows Park, Pepper Tree Playfield, Rancho Conejo Playfield, Russell Park, Southshore Hills Park, Spring Meadow Park, Stagecoach Inn Museum, Suburbia Park, Sunset Hills Park, Sycamore Neighborhood Park, Thousand Oaks Community Center,Thousand Oaks Community Center Playfield, Triunfo Park, Walnut Grove Equestrian Center, Waverly Park, Wendy Park, Wildflower Playfield, Wildwood Neighborhood park, Wildwood Park.
-
Rancho Simi Recreation and Parks District is Arroyo Park sv, Arroyo Simi Bike Path sv, Arroyo Simi Equestrian sv, Arroyostow Park sv, Atherwood Park sv, Berylwood Park sv, Big Sky Park sv, Challenger Park sv, Chaparral Park op, Chumash Park and Trail sv, Citrus Grove Park sv, Corriganville Park sv, Coyote Hills Park sv, Darrah Volunteer Park sv, Deerhill Park op, Eagle View Park op, Foothill Park sv
Frontier Park sv, Houghton-Schreiber Park sv, Indian Springs Park op, Knolls Park sv, Las Llajas Canyon Trail sv, Lincoln Park sv, Long Canyon Trail sv, Mae Boyar Park, Mayfair Park sv, Medea Creek Park op, Mt. Mccoy Trail sv, Oak Canyon
Community Park op, Oak Canyon Dog Park op, Oak Park Community Center and Garden op Oak Park Community Gardens op, Old Windmill Park sv, Rancho Madera Community Park sv, Rancho Santa Susana Community Center sv, Rancho Simi Community Park (duck pond) sv, Rancho Tapo Community Park (lemon) sv, Rocky Pointe Nature Park sv, Santa Susana Depot sv, Santa Susana Park sv, Sequoia Park sv, Simi Dog Park sv, Simi Hills Golf Course sv, Simi Hills Park sv, Sinaloa Golf Course sv,
Sinaloa Park sv, Sinaloa Youth Ball Fields sv, Stargazer Park sv, Strathearn Historical Park and Museum sv, Sycamore Bmx Track sv, Sycamore Canyon Park sv, Sycamore Drive Community Center sv, Sycamore Park sv, Valley View Park op, Verde Park sv, Vista del Arroyo Park sv, Willowbrook Park sv

[Reply]
Comment by MK | February 28th, 2012

So I received a letter from the RSI Enterprise collection agency. My 3 tickets have gone up from $175 to $240 a piece; I’m not gonna pay. I’m a college student, unemployed, and don’t even have the money. Plus, it’s a scam!

I’m gonna send this letter to them, and if anyone here wants to use it as a template, feel free to:

[Your Name and Address]

RSI Enterprises, Inc.
PO Box 16190
Phoenix, AZ 85011

05/26/11

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is being sent to you in response to a notice sent to me on [Date of Notice]. Be advised that this is not a refusal to pay, but a notice sent pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 USC 1692g Sec. 809 (8) that your claim is disputed and validation is requested.
This is NOT a request for “verification” or proof of my mailing address, but a request for VALIDATION made pursuant to the above named Title and Section. I respectfully request that your offices provide me with competent evidence that I have any legal obligation to pay you.
At this time I will also inform you that if your offices have reported invalidated information to any of the 3 major Credit Bureaus (Equifax, Experian or TransUnion) this action might constitute fraud under both Federal and State Laws. Due to this fact, if any negative mark is found on any of my credit reports by your company or the company that you represent I will not hesitate in bringing legal action against you and your client for the following:

Violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act
Violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act
Defamation of Character

If your offices are able to provide the proper documentation as requested in the following Declaration, I will require at least 30 days to investigate this information and during such time all collection activity must cease and desist. Also during this validation period, if any action is taken which could be considered detrimental to any of my credit reports, I will consult with my legal counsel for suit. This includes listing any information to a credit reporting repository that could be inaccurate or invalidated. If your offices fail to respond to this validation request within 30 days from the date of your receipt, all references to this account must be deleted and completely removed from my credit file and a copy of such deletion request shall be sent to me immediately. Also, if the debt is older than 4 years for a written contract and 2 years for an oral contract, under the California statute of limitation, the debt is no longer valid and must be removed from the credit report.
I would also like to request, in writing, that no further telephone contact be made by your offices to my home or to my place of employment. If your offices continue to attempt telephone communication with me it will be considered harassment and I will have no choice but to file suit. All future communications with me MUST be done in writing and sent to the address noted in this letter.

It would be advisable that you and your client assure that your records are in order before I am forced to take legal action.

Best Regards,

[Your Name]

CREDITOR/DEBT COLLECTOR DECLARATION
Please provide all of the following information and submit the appropriate forms and paperwork within 30 days from the date of your receipt of this request for validation.
Name and Address of Alleged Creditor:
______________________________________________________
Name on File of Alleged Debtor:
_____________________________________________________________
Alleged Account #:
_____________________________________________________________
Address on File for Alleged Debtor:
____________________________________________________________
Amount of alleged debt:
_____________________________________________________________
Date that this alleged debt became payable:
_____________________________________________________
Date of original charge off or delinquency:
___________________________________________________
Was this debt assigned to debt collector or purchased?
____________________________________________
Amount paid if debt was purchased:
___________________________________________________________
Commission for debt collector if collection efforts are successful:
____________________________________
Please attach a copy of the agreement with your client that grants (Collection Agency Name) the authority to collect this alleged debt.
Please attach a copy of any signed agreement debtor has made with debt collector, or other verifiable proof that debtor has a contractual obligation to pay debt collector.
Please attach a copy of any agreement that bears the signature of debtor, wherein he/she agreed to pay creditor.
Please attach copies of all statements while this account was open.
Have any insurance claims been made by any creditor regarding this account? YES NO
Have any judgments been obtained by any creditor regarding this account? YES NO
Please provide the name and address of the bonding agent for (Name Of Debt Collector), in case legal action becomes necessary:
_____________________________________________________________

______________________________  Authorized Signature For Creditor
______________________________  Date
You must return this completed form along with copies of all requested information, assignments or other transfer agreements, which would establish your right to collect this alleged debt within 30 days from the date of your receipt of this letter. Your claim cannot and WILL NOT be considered if any portion of this form is not completed and returned with copies of all requested documents. This is a request for validation made pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Please allow 30 days for processing after I receive this information back.

^I’m going to mail that to them, and hopefully (I’m pretty positive) they will NOT contact me anymore and this can just end.

Anyway, good luck everyone!

MK

[Reply]
CJBL Reply:
May 9th, 2012 (2 weeks ago) at 7:24 am
Did you ever hear back after sending that letter? Hope they just go away.

[Reply]
Comment by Sharon | March 1st, 2012

I just got a ticket in the mail and in the picture you can CLEARLY see my brake lights are ON. I was over the line a little, but that was after I already stopped at the sign. I had to keep “rolling” forward slowly so I could peek around the corner since you clearly can’t see!
I’m the fleet manager of all of our company cars and it looks REALLY bad that MY company vehicle that I have for personal use got this! That’s what I get for taking a drive on a holiday though Topanga Canyon! So this goes on my company’s credit report (if it does anything at all!)

I WILL FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!! Thanks everyone!

[Reply]
Comment by Alyssa Dazet | March 28th, 2012

Awwww man!! I paid the damn ticket b/c I was so pissed it I even got it that I just wanted it out of my sight! Now I wish I hadn’t.
And then, not a week after they cashed in my payment, I got a SECOND letter that stated I only gave them PARTIAL PAYMENT and I owe them another $17.50. What the hell?! The first letter 100% read $175.00. Where is this extra $17.50 coming from…their a#@?!!
This just makes my blood boil, argh!!! Why do they have to be corrupt?! >:(

[Reply]
Comment by Matt S | April 6th, 2012

I got one of these, ignored the first, just got the second… not paying.

We’ll have some fun with this

[Reply]
Comment by Stephan | April 12th, 2012

Visited Franklin back in December. Got the first letter in January. Ignored it and received the second letter a couple of weeks ago. Also ignored it. Will not pay. Never Ever! Starve the beast!
Thank you for your website.

[Reply]
Comment by Adam Marsland | April 19th, 2012 (5 weeks ago)

I haven’t noticed anyone talking about Braude Park, or “Top of Reseda.” I got popped for a ticket up there a few months ago. I’d been to the park many times, and was well aware of the stop sign they had at the bottom of the hill for years, which was impossible to miss because of the concrete barriers around it and the clear line of sight down the hill.

The video showed me not braking, but blowing right through the stop sign. I was a bit shocked until I went back and walked my pathway. Then I was outraged.

The whole thing is a total trap. If you turn around at the top of Reseda, the first thing you will see is a large, white, clearly visible sign that states SPEED LIMIT 25. At this point you are starting down a steep hill and going around a curve with the right side on your inside. You are driving in the middle of the road because there is parking on either side, so your line of sight is directed away from the right curb.

The next sign is the yellow “photo enforcement” sign with the stop signal on it. They have placed this far on the inside of the curve IN THE MIDDLE OF A ROW OF TREES. It is nearly impossible to see and the “Photo Enforcement” lettering is so small that you would have to stop the car to read it. In low light (which it was when I blew threw the sign), it’s virtually invisible.

Then you continue going downhill and around the curve until you encounter the stop sign. Same deal. It is 20 feet to your right, behind a row of trees, and the curve of the road is such that you would have to pivot your head at a right angle to clearly see it. Moreover, there are parking areas immediately after the stop. If you’re being a responsible driver (which I am) and there are pedestrians on the other side of the line (which there were), your attention is going to be focused on keeping an eye on them.

The clincher? The stop sign on the way UP the road has a clear line of sight for nearly a quarter mile. There is NO photo enforcement going UP, where you can see the sign clearly, just going DOWN. Nor is there any notice on that sign that there is a camera in use. So the park is worried about public safety on the way down, but not on the way up? What a load of sh*t.

I’m all for stopping at stop signs and I never got popped at the old one they had at the bottom of the hill because I KNEW THAT IT WAS THERE. This one is virtually invisible, particularly in low light. All the warning signs are way off to the side and obscured from vision because of where they placed them relative to the location of the curb, the tress on the side of the road, and the curve of the road going downhill.

Outrageous.

[Reply]
Renay Reply:
May 3rd, 2012 (3 weeks ago) at 11:20 am
Don’t pay it Adam. I just got one too. After everything I read here its a bunch of crap!

[Reply]
Comment by Arthur | May 3rd, 2012 (3 weeks ago)

Hello everyone,
I have read through all of your comments and am thoroughly convinced not to pay. I just have a question, how bad would my credit rating suffer if let’s say the RSI DO report me? I am still in college and I do not want to come out with a damaged rating.

Thanks again!

[Reply]
pz Reply:
May 3rd, 2012 (3 weeks ago) at 2:14 am
RSI will not report anyone because doing so would increase the likelihood of a class action lawsuit against them. Basically they are happy to get paid by most people and then let the small number of people who refuse to pay go. Don’t pay.

[Reply]
Arthur Reply:
May 3rd, 2012 (3 weeks ago) at 2:15 am
Makes perfect sense. Thanks again!

[Reply]
Comment by Jo Drummond | May 3rd, 2012 (3 weeks ago)

It has been a year and a half since we received our first citation. I sent two letters to RSI when I received their threatening letters and threatened them right back that I never agreed to pay such an extremely unfair and unlawful accusation. I also mentioned that I wasn’t even driving the vehicle at the time. Someone else was. I also wrote them that if they kept contacting me I would sue them for harassment. The letters I wrote were a template I got from this blog. I haven’t received a letter since my last and nothing has been placed on my credit report. CD

[Reply]
Comment by Dennis | May 3rd, 2012 (3 weeks ago)

Its been over two years for me. I didnt even go through the trouble of responding to RSI with any letters of any kind. I simply ignored them. I havent heard from them in a long time and nothing has happened to my credit. Im tempted to go driving through all those stop signs intentionally now to taunt them.

[Reply]
Arthur Reply:
May 3rd, 2012 (3 weeks ago) at 11:40 am
That’s freakin hilarious xD

[Reply]
Comment by Renay | May 3rd, 2012 (3 weeks ago)

Okay got one of these in mail today. Going to follow all of your advice. I’m not paying. This is ridiculous. I wasn’t driving my car. I loaned it to a friend to drive. How can the owner of a car be guilty of “NOT COMING TO A COMPLETE STOP” when I had no control over the car? What happened to the class action against these people?

[Reply]
Comment by Big Ed | May 3rd, 2012 (3 weeks ago)

Just received a rolling stop ticket from top of topanga today… It went straight to the trash!! Going back tomorrow and to drive thru it again!! HaHa!!

[Reply]
Comment by Joshy | May 4th, 2012 (3 weeks ago)

Don’t pay fools. I’ve ignored all the citation & collection letters. Nothing ever happens to your credit. Quit worrying about it. MRCA extorts people and they are violating multiple state laws and RSI Enterprises has no authority to affect your credit. Don’t even waste your time responding with scary sounding legal letters. Simple shred the letter or use it to wipe your ass.

Or, if you’re bored and want to have fun, send them monopoly money of greater value than the citation amount and demand your change back. Then send them to a collection agency when you don’t receive proper change. It falls in line with what they are doing perfectly!

[Reply]
Comment by Bob | May 6th, 2012 (2 weeks ago)

Saw this article where the appellate Court held up the MRCA’a postition on stop sign cameras.

http://www.palisadespost.com/news/content.php?id=6882

So, is the issue dead? As an aside, it is nice to see that the MRCA has turned the Santa Monica Mountains into an old fashioned Southern Speed Trap. They must be high fiving themselves…..what a fine bunch.

[Reply]
Comment by bob | May 7th, 2012 (2 weeks ago)

I just found out the head of the MRCA is Joseph T. Edminston. I looked up ol’ Joe on Zabasearch and found he has several addresses listed here in Socal but don’t want to cause trouble for the owner of this blog so I won’t publish the addresses here. Intellius also has him listed with relatives (one has a really funny name). In thinking about this entire thing, what if Joe invites us all to one of his houses (I would hope for the address with the seaside views myself ) for a really big brunch, maybe that would take the sting out of the “forced donation” we are being asked to give via his stop sign program to the MRCA?

[Reply]
Comment by CJBL | May 9th, 2012 (2 weeks ago)

Anybody had the experience of RSI calling them? Got a weird electronic message re an “attempt to collect a debt”. Ticket was from more than a year ago. Unbelievable they have the right to leave that on answering machines, especially since collections are confidential. Just left a phone number for us to return the call, like that will ever happen!

[Reply]
Comment by Jo Drummond | May 9th, 2012 (2 weeks ago)

NEver heard from them again after sending them two letters. OVer a year and a half now and never hit my credit or my husband’s.

[Reply]

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Welcome to the Freedom Minute

The Freedom Minute is dedicated to a discussion of all things having to do with personal freedom and what I see as the steady encroachment by government on our personal rights. I take a decidedly libertarian point of view in my analysis of economics and personal freedoms. Note that I intentionally spell libertarian with a small "l" since I identify more with the overall philosophy than with any political party. If you're not familiar with libertarian philosophy or you think you know what it is, it might be useful to read the short primer which appears in the Philosophy section. In addition, you might want to grab a copy of Libertarianism: A Primer by David Boaz or Libertarianism in One Lesson by David Bergland, both excellent books on libertarian thought.

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My goal, if there is one beyond my desire to create a public forum for my personal opinions, is to get people to think about things in a way they might not have thought about them before. I don't know if I will change many minds, but one can hope. The British philosopher Bertrand Russell once said, "If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence". I hope that even if you disagree, you read this site with an open mind. I can ask for nothing more.