The $100 Stop Sign Scam

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Getting a traffic ticket is no fun. It stings, usually to the tune of hundreds of dollars. What can make the experience even worse, though, is the realization that you’ve just been caught in the latest government scam to separate you from your hard earned cash.

If you want to avoid falling victim to one of the most egregious abuses of government power, you’d best avoid the public parks under the jurisdiction of the Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority, otherwise known as the MRCA. This little known state agency, which administers the lands belonging to the Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy, the Conejo Recreation and Park District, and the Rancho Simi Recreation and Park District is out to get your money. And they’ll use every dirty trick possible to do it.

Their latest scheme is the installation of automated ticketing cameras at stop signs within their parks. Anyone who fails to come to a complete stop is hit with a one hundred one hundred and seventy five dollar ticket. Now we can all agree that blowing through a stop sign, especially in a park where pedestrians are likely to be present, is not only dangerous, but deserving of severe punishment as well as the contempt of your fellow citizens. But that’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about what is commonly known as the California Stop, where a driver slows to a crawl but doesn’t quite stop completely before proceeding. Most drivers who engage in the rolling stop only do so when it’s clear that there’s no one around. You know, like in a quiet neighborhood or secluded park. And if there does happen to be another vehicle or pedestrian present, there’s plenty of opportunity to come to a full stop without putting anyone in danger. So, this is what is known as a technical violation. It’s a little like going 5 mph over the speed limit. Everyone does it at some point and no harm comes of it.

But regardless of the fact that this behavior puts no one at risk, the MRCA believes that if you engage in this practice on their turf, you deserve a $100 $175 fine. And to ensure that they can nab you, they’ve flagrantly skirted the state law that forbids the use of this type of automated enforcement. That’s right, this type of enforcement is not permitted under the California Vehicle Code, which is intended to be the law for all vehicles on the state’s roadways. So how can the MRCA get away with this abusive practice? They’ve simply declared that the law doesn’t apply to them. They’re special; they’re above the law. The arguments they make in support of this theory are extensive and I’ll leave that for another post where I’ll rebut them all.

What I want to concentrate on in this post, is their self serving claim that this is not about revenue enhancement, but rather all about safety. In fact, in response to the public outcry against this ticketing scheme, Joe Edmiston, executive director of the Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy, said: “I’m more worried about a law suit from somebody whose child is killed. We’d be sued for millions for not controlling the interface between visitors and cars.” Wow, it sure sounds like there must have been massive carnage on the roadways within these parks. Joe Edmiston just had to implement these automated fines to save the children.

So how many accidents or injuries can be attributed to drivers failing to stop at the stop signs on the roadways within the jurisdiction of the MRCA? Exactly zero. Not one. Not ever. When pressed, Joe Edmiston couldn’t cite even one accident or injury. Yet it was necessary to install these automated cameras which extract tens of thousands of dollars from unsuspecting park visitors yearly all in an effort to save the children. Of course, any reasonable person can see that safety has nothing to do with it. On the contrary, this is clearly about filling the coffers of the MRCA and enhancing their power within their little fiefdom.

But if you’re still not convinced that this isn’t about safety, have a look at one of these stop sign installations enforced with an automated ticketing camera.

Stop Sign Front

In this picture, taken at Marvin Braude Mulholland Gateway Park at the top of Reseda Blvd in Tarzana, you can plainly see that the stop sign sits pretty much in the middle of the road. There’s no cross street, no crosswalk, no intersection; no chance that any vehicle or pedestrian will cross your path. In fact, there’s absolutely no reason at all to have a stop sign here. And since there’s no common sense reason to stop, other than if you don’t, you’ll get a $100 $175 ticket; many motorists only slow down rather than come to a complete stop. Sure, it’s technically a violation, but only because the MRCA arbitrarily criminalized the behavior. What reason could the MRCA have for locating this sign in such a ridiculous and confusing location? Could it be purely in an attempt to collect as many $100 $175 fines as possible? It certainly isn’t to save the children.

And just to drive the point home, the reverse view of this idiotic photo enforced stop sign installation makes it even more obvious that it was placed in such a way as to ensnare the maximum number of park visitors and reap the greatest amount of revenue.

Stop Sign Back

So be forewarned, the MRCA is out to rob you blind. Don’t get caught up in their revenue enhancement scheme. Photo enforced stop signs are also located in Temescal Gateway Park, Top of Topanga Overlook, Hollywood Bowl Scenic Overlook, and Franklin Canyon Park. There might be others coming soon.

And if you want to express your outrage at how a rogue government agency is engaging in highway robbery, call your city and state representatives. They’ll probably tell you it’s perfectly legal; it’s not. One field deputy for former state senator Sheila Kuehl told me, “Well if the government is doing it, it has to be legal”. Brilliant. But you don’t have to get into any legal debates. Just tell them you abhor this type of blatant revenue enhancement scheme. Tell them you want them to look into it. At the very least, they’ll be on notice that you’re keeping an eye on the actions of our public officials.

And if you happen to have gotten one of these tickets, I want to hear about it. If you’re still fighting it, maybe you can be a test case to get this overturned. If your case is already finished, you should know that there’s a class action lawsuit in the works. I’ll post more about that when I have an update.

Finally, if you suspect that I’m so outraged about this because I’ve gotten one of these bogus tickets, you’d be wrong. I’ve successfully avoided contributing to the MRCA’s stop sign fund, mainly because I refuse to visit and drive in their parks. It’s my own little boycott.

After this article was posted, I found that the citation has recently been increased to $175. Now we can all be doubly outraged.

If you’d like to be kept informed about lawsuits or other actions we’re taking to stop this illegal money grab by the MRCA, you can sign up for email alerts using the form under the heading “Subscribe to the Freedom Minute Newsletter” in the sidebar to the right of this post. Enter your name and email address and check the box for “MRCA Alerts” under “You can also sign up for specific lists” and you’ll always get the most up-to-date information.

For more detailed information about the MRCA photo enforcement scam, read the follow-up article FAQ About MRCA Stop Sign Tickets. It will answer many of your questions.

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May 26th, 2010 Posted by freedomminute | State Government | 574 comments

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574 Responses to “The $100 Stop Sign Scam”

Comment by Brian | May 27th, 2010

I did not get a moving ticket but I did get a parking ticket. What gets me is that any other parking ticket might be $30. This was $70! What a rip. So keep up the good work.

[Reply]
joebanana Reply:
November 13th, 2010 at 3:12 pm
Here’s the deal. The supreme court ruled that the testimony of the officer that is responsible for reviewing the actual issuance of the ticket is hearsay, and not admissible. And you have the right to confront your accuser so fight it and make them bring in the camera.

[Reply]
Eli Reply:
November 13th, 2010 at 5:06 pm
Please post a link if you have one – I would love to look into that…

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joebanana Reply:
November 24th, 2010 at 9:18 pm
http://www.metnews.com/articles/2010/khal072310.htm
Sorry it took so long.

[Reply]
djhall Reply:
December 15th, 2010 at 5:06 pm
I am to be scheduled for an “appeal hearing” on Sat., Jan. 8th. I would like
to make this a media event to put a stop to this scam. When I receive my
time and location would you be interested in this info. in order to attend
as concerned public? D. J. Hall

[Reply]
BigTimeScam Reply:
January 17th, 2011 at 1:09 pm
Redflex, the company that operates the stop sign camera system, apparently has a history of being deceitful.
Arizona Secretary of State Jan Brewer confirmed that documents used to convict motorists contained elements that had been falsified.
Also, Redflex CEO Karen Finley admitted that it falsified FCC documents for 11 years.
You can visit the following websites for more interesting information about Redflex.
fireredflex.com
camerafruad.com
Redflex is facing many lawsuits and is spending the fortune they scammed from motorists to pay for their defense.
Another reason NOT TO PAY UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

[Reply]
BigTimeScam Reply:
January 17th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
MRCA is under contract with Redflex, the company that operates the stop sign scameras. MRCA pays a monthly fee for operating the scameras. If revenue generated falls below the amount of the monthly fee, MRCA is still under contract and legally obligated to pay. MRCA will not stop trying to collect, and neither should we stop trying to end this.
PLEASE PEOPLE, DO NOT PAY THE EXTORTION.
ORGANIZE PROTESTS AT PARK ENTRANCES TO STOP THE REVENUE FLOW.
END THIS REVENUE SCAM.
If you would like to organize, write me at:
jeffhere at live .com

[Reply]
Robert lyon Reply:
March 20th, 2011 at 6:14 pm
I’m in… got my ticket a the top of topanga 2-15-11

[Reply]
Tim Reply:
March 31st, 2011 at 8:31 am
The thing that gets me is that I went to Temescal Canyon Park for a nice hike with my brother and had a wonderful day, but receiving the ticket in the mail with no recollection of running a stop sign sort of ruins the whole experience. I have been going to this park for 20 years and have also received the $65 parking ticket. I even had my wedding reception on one of the lawns at the park. This park just continues to make money off of me. MRCA should be ashamed of itself. Parks are meant for enjoyment not for extortion…

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Comment by freedomminute | May 27th, 2010

Thanks. The MRCA thinks they can do anything they want. Everywhere else in the state, there are limits to fines and how they can be implemented. The MRCA just ignores all that and says they have complete autonomy. The only way to stop them is to get our state representatives involved.

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john Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 8:14 am
I just received a ticket too. Can I get some answers from you?

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Comment by Ben | June 2nd, 2010

Big time fraud. I called a (Ohio based?) number listed on the “ticket” and the operator told me that if I did not pay, it would go to the DMV to be added on to my registration. I finally tracked a ranger down at the MRCA and was told that actually was not the case after pressing the subject (unhelpful civil servant). The MRCA are the scumbag criminals and liars. Don’t pay the ticket. Moreover, they’ve set it up so you can’t get a fair hearing either so don’t even try to fight it.

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Comment by SJ | June 8th, 2010

I got one at Franklin Canyon in April. Of course I don’t want to pay it ($175), I was in a rental (Avis) and they ratted me out to the MRCA cult. And charged me a $25 administrative fee.
The only thing I can find out from web research, is if you don’t pay it they send a collection agency after you. Doesn’t sound like any of this is actually legal, but I am not a CA resident so I have no pull with CA legislators.
I’ll keep watching this blog for more information.
Thanks and keep up the good work!

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
June 9th, 2010 at 1:55 am
First, there is a lot more info to come.

Also, I assume from your post that you are not currently in the state and therefore unavailable to fight this. Just another example of how those being hit with this administrative citation are being denied due process. Now, see my comment below.

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qwerty Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:28 pm
Yes I have two tickets that came over a few weeks when I was not aware of the cameras. The amount on each ticket from collection agency RSI Enterprises is $412.51 . I refuse to pay for such an immoral citation …..

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Comment by freedomminute | June 9th, 2010

For those of you that have been hit with a citation of more than $100, I have some important news coming. I hope to be able to knock out the ordinance as invalid. If that does happen, I don’t know whether a court would order retroactive relief, but it’s possible. There is precedent for courts ordering a refund to all those who were illegally cited. Stay tuned.

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Arlene G, Reply:
September 23rd, 2010 at 2:11 pm
Please be sure to include me in any class action law suit.

I’m currently in the process of contesting my ticket this Saturday that I received while driving through the park for a Toddlerpalooza event back in June. I was driving as slow as a snail through the park with my then 2 year old in tow. The sign was not clearly visible – it’s in the middle of a road.

I found out after from the event organizer, that she herself received a ticket as did many upset parents of toddlers that day. Our friends, who had 2 toddlers in the vehicle, only noticed the sign seconds before passing it as well. Obviously, as parents, we were all extra dilegent driving safely through an event packed with toddlers.

I’m a single parent and this is an extreme hardship. I actually ended up parking 10 blocks from the event to save the park’s parking fee!

Additionally, the video appears to be sped up as the picture they captured of me after I had passed the stop sign has me going at 8 miles and hour. Meanwhile, if you watch the tape, it looks like I’m just zipping through the park.

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Anonymous Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 6:07 pm
Everyone should keep in mind that video can be altered. In this situation, it is extremely easy to alter “video evidence” to show something that is not true by:
1)Speeding up the video
2)Cutting from or eliminating the portion of the video that shows a car coming to a complete stop.
As an unethical tactic to begin with, with no outside monitoring agency, who is to prove this is not taking place?
Also, keep in mind as discussed in posting #163, the way this video surveillance system is set up, ALL VEHICLES exiting these parks are being video taped, not just alleged drivers not coming to a complete stop. These tapes can be stored and later altered.

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Anonymous Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 7:10 pm
Another interesting point brought up in post #163 is that there is no definition or criteria listed as to MCRA’s interpretation of a “complete stop.”
For example, HOW LONG must you be completely stopped? is an “attosecond” adequate? (An attosecond is one quintillionth of a second)
Can their current system accurately judge if a vehicle completed a stop, how long the vehicle was stopped, and most importantly, how does it do that? To make a blanket statement that you did not come to a complete stop based on NO listed criteria is insulting to everyones intelligence.
Also, if your stop is determined by an inground sensor or other measuring device, then WHERE you stop is crucial as well. That sensor should be clearly displayed and marked so you can stop at the point it is being monitored.
The rudimentary video used as “evidence” is NOT adequate to make this determination with any consistant accuracy, nor is it stored or monitored by an unbiased third party, thus making tampering not only plausable, but considering the application, highly likely.
Finally, if you are being judged on making a complete stop, and a fine will be attached if you fail, why is there not an indicator light clearly visible to signal you have complied with or failed their definition of a complete stop? Crazy thought I know. A green light flashes giving you the O.K. to proceed after completing a stop with no fear of being cited. If you “role through the stop, a red light flashes indicating you failed. For the pupose of making the parks safer,(as MRCA states is their goal) that makes more sense to me.
This is clearly not about complying or making our parks safer, it’s all about money.

[Reply]
BigTimeScam Reply:
January 17th, 2011 at 11:33 am
My “fine” arrived in the mail today, January 12, 2011.
The date listed is WRONG. I was not in the park in December as is claimed. In fact, I was out of town, and my car parked in an airport parking lot at the time! And the video looks as if it has been sped up. The action does not look natural. I NEVER roll through stop signs. I live in Beverly Hills and the police there LOVE to ticket for rolling stops. I recieved a ticket for this long ago, and since have always come to a complete stop. This is obviously a despicable money grab, and the only way MRCA would get a cent from my is to pry it from my cold dead hand.
After reading every post here, I am convinced NO ONE should pay ANY amount under ANY circumstances. I also think that until a court orders a stop to this, everyone who reads this has a moral responibility to warn others before they are victimized. POST #163 suggested volunteers station themselves at park entrances and hand out warning flyers to motorists.
If enough people do this, it will severely limit future money generated until this is stopped. This is ALL about money, so hit MRCA where it would hurt the most, because everything else means nothing until then.
If your interested in volunteering, write to me at:
jeffhere at live . com

[Reply]
Arlene G, Reply:
October 25th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
Count me in please for any class action suits or relief! $175 and I did contest based on 3 legal grounds and it didn’t make a difference.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 7:46 pm
January 15, 2010 udate follows: Of course it made no difference. MRCA only invites you to a “hearing” as another means to collect from those reluctant to just pay. But you should have asked yourself, when in the past have I ever had to pay a fine first, then contest it?
That was your red flag and unfortunetly you missed it.
As of now, January 15, 2011, it is the general consensus of all intelligent people here and elsewhere to not pay any amount under any circumstances. NO ONE has suffered a negative mark on their credit, and this scam has been going on since at 2008. That’s a line they will not cross, as it exposes them to a more severe lawsuit.
Legislation has also been based recently to close the loophole they were exploiting and the class action lawsuit is being reveiwed. But beware, notices to pay “fines” are still being recieved, and they will not stop until they receive the all important court order to cease and desist. MRCA’s time is running out, so dont be the one who feeds the dying beast his last meal!

[Reply]
Comment by Brian | June 11th, 2010

Could you tell me if there is a class action suit against MRCA and how to get included. Also a hint at the “news” and how to also get involved. Thank you.

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Comment by Eli Garcia | June 12th, 2010

I also have been caught at exactly this ridiculous stop for $175. I am very interested in any class action suit, or anything else I can do to fight this BS.

[Reply]
Eli Garcia Reply:
June 21st, 2010 at 10:12 pm
Hey, I just got a second one! Wheee, I went to this park two days in a row and got two bs tickets for $350 because I didn’t stop at a completely reasonless stop sign.

I’m so happy we have these sleazy fascist fucks to take care of our parks with ticket happy rangers and fake stop-sign traps. Some days I wish I believed in Karma.

[Reply]
Eli Garcia Reply:
June 21st, 2010 at 10:14 pm
VERY interested in any type of class action if you can chase down that lawyer.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
June 23rd, 2010 at 3:11 am
I expect to hear back from him later this week. He has a conference with the judge (and the MRCA) and we’ll have a better idea what we’re up against after I hear from him.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
June 23rd, 2010 at 3:12 am
Well if you keep paying them, they’re going to keep sending you tickets.

[Reply]
Comment by Eli Garcia | June 12th, 2010

Also, shouldn’t there, at a minimum, be a photo stop warning sign like there is for a red light camera?

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
June 12th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
The problem with the MRCA’s reasoning on this is that the codes that they claim they are operating under (the Natural Resources Code and the Government Code) just says that they can cite you for not obeying the “signs” and there’s no standard for what the signs have to be. Where that standard is found is the vehicle code (and the California Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices), but the MRCA conveniently claims that they are not bound by that (if they were bound, they wouldn’t be able to cite you using the cameras). I, and a lot of others, many who know the law better than I, believe that their arguments are BS. The problem is that you have to find a court that agrees with our reasoning and not theirs.

As for individual cases, you may get lucky in court and find a sympathetic judge and have your citation dismissed, but it is going to take a lot of work on your part. Most people just roll over and suck up the $175 fee because they don’t have the time or resources to fight it. And that’s what the MRCA is counting on.

The only way to definitively stop them is if someone files a lawsuit and wins in the appellate division or the California Supreme Court if it gets that far. Again, probably not worth it for an individual but might be worth it for a class action. See my comment below on that.

Alternatively, the legislature will have to definitively act to change or add to the California Code to make it explicit that the MRCA is not authorized to do this. I’ll put up a post on the possibilities of this and what you can do.

[Reply]
Hoser Reply:
May 12th, 2011 at 9:17 am
MRCA roads aren’t part of the city or county roads therefore they aren’t bound by the same rules and regulations. They can enforce any law they see fit (and create) on their own property.

[Reply]
joebanana Reply:
November 24th, 2010 at 9:25 pm
Good point, there has to be a “stop ahead” sign posted.

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Comment by Tyson Dexter | June 15th, 2010

VERY well done freedomminute. I just got stuck with this ridiculous ticket that is unfair, a scam, and a blatant ignoring of our rights.

I too have e-mailed and left numerous messages for Mr. Braun offering to help in any way possible with regard to the class action lawsuit.

I happen to keep a VERY close eye over my credit, and thus, will probably end up taking it up the tailpipe and paying the $100, SCRATCH THAT, $175 fine so that it is not reported to a credit agency.

It’s sad that our world has come to this. Just total BS in the name of “the kids.”

Any other information you happen to stumble upon, please e-mail me at Tisun@aol.com. Thank you again and well done!

[Reply]
joebanana Reply:
November 24th, 2010 at 9:29 pm
You forgot the penalty assessment fee of 170% of the fine. That’s in LA county, and other places I’ll bet. The way the judge explained it was it’s a penalty for getting a ticket. Now, isn’t that double jeopardy?

[Reply]
Comment by Brandon Gilbrech | June 19th, 2010

My name is Brandon and I received a ticket at the reseda park, the one pictured on the site. I have every intention of fighting this ticket. I think that it is preposterous to have a sign there. I totally understand the purpose of stop signs and street regulations when done in for the purpose of safety, but this is clearly not the case, and beyond that, the park was empty that day. Please contact me for the purposes of fighting or if I lose, to join the class action lawsuit. Also, can anyone say with complete confidence that they did not pay off this ticket and it did not end up coming back to haunt them. I have a clean record and want to keep it that way. Furthermore, if I contest the ticket, does it then disbar me from taking driving school and keeping my record clean?

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
June 19th, 2010 at 8:12 pm
Brandon,

This is an administrative citation, so it does not affect your record with the DMV and puts no points on your license. Therefore, no traffic school is applicable or necessary since the sole purpose of traffic school is to keep the violation off your record.

You probably won’t get anywhere fighting the citation on the grounds that it’s not a safety issue. You have to fight the law itself. I can help you do that (though I can’t guarantee anything) and will email you privately.

[Reply]
Ira Reply:
December 6th, 2010 at 10:31 am
I just got a tix and intent to fight it. Brandon, pelase advise how is your lawsuite going. I was planning to use the standard defence I would use with regular tix.

[Reply]
Comment by freedomminute | June 19th, 2010

I have been in contact with the attorney who is handling the class action suit and hope to have additional information for everyone next week sometime.

[Reply]
Joe Sandjian Reply:
June 30th, 2010 at 7:49 pm
I just received the two ticket in the mail for not stopping at the stop signs up Reseda blvd. After reading numerous state codes, I strongly believe this is scam and a way for MCAR to manipulate state laws to increase their revenues. I have two other ticket recipients who got a ticket on the same day (the car infront of me and the car in back of me) who believe this is completely unjust. Please forward me any info regarding that class action law suit and any information on the Lawyer. Thank you Joe Sandjian

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
July 1st, 2010 at 2:54 am
I expect to speak with him later today and will update everyone when I have more info.

[Reply]
jay Reply:
March 16th, 2011 at 8:16 pm
Is there any update on having to pay these tickets. I just received two…

[Reply]
Comment by Ryan | June 21st, 2010

Hey Freedomminute:
I just received one of these tickets at Sunset Blvd Temescal Canyon Park and would love to find out more info on how to fight it.

Thanks for your post!

[Reply]
MurphysLaw Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 11:23 am
Oh dear, I wish that I had known about this! I just received a $175 citaion at the SAME spot! I’ve been outsourced after 23 Years, have NO money, and was only coming to a job interview in the area.
* Just turning around IN AN EMPTY LOT, and not even USING the bloody park…there was NOBODY anywhere.

MMurphy

[Reply]
Comment by Blake | June 24th, 2010

I got a ticket in the mail for the Reseda stop sign (one pictured above) I was wondering if ignoring it is ok or should I pay it off, and whats going on with a class action lawsuit?

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
June 25th, 2010 at 6:18 am
Blake,

I can’t give you any legal advice, but if you do ignore this, it is entirely possible that they will hit you with additional penalties and then send your account to a collection agency who will eventually notify the credit reporting agencies of the debt. If you want some info on how you might fight the ticket, send me an email (use the contact link at the top of this page).

[Reply]
Comment by John | June 28th, 2010

I have no money and am in dire straits financially, but I’m trying to provide healthy and educational recreational time for my daughter when I can. So, I take a ride up to Franklin Canyon driving very slowly the whole way out of respect for the space, not to mention the law. I even pull over for cars who want to go faster. We take a hike, see the ducks, etc. A week later the mail delivers a ticket for $175 for running a stop sign. I hardly remember it, but a video documents my car going through it. There is no way I can pay this ticket at this time. I will have to let it go to collections and live with that. I’d like to learn how best to fight this is there is a way better than just ignoring it. Thanks.

[Reply]
joebanana Reply:
November 24th, 2010 at 9:34 pm
Got a paintball gun?

[Reply]
Comment by kris Hicks | June 28th, 2010

I just got a $175 ticket at the Temescal cyn. park.The only negative I see in NOT paying is penalties and credit report. I have perfect credit so I could care less- unless they can sue to recover.

[Reply]
Comment by Howard | June 28th, 2010

I’ve been going to the top of Reseda for years. Coming down the hill last weekend, I noticed the stop sign and of course I know there are no intersections, no crosswalk, no people around, etc, so I rolled through slowly. If they were concerned about safety, they would help slow people down by posting signs about the cameras. But without those signs, it would seem to be entrapment, a flagrant abuse and ignorance of the law.

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Comment by Howard | June 28th, 2010

Section 6.5 of MRCA rules (at http://smmc.ca.gov/MRCA-ordinance-10-03.pdf ) says:

“All citations, orders and notices required by this Chapter may be served either by personal delivery or certified mail…(snip)…If the certified mail receipt is returned unsigned, then service may instead be effected by first class mail…”

My citation came via first class mail, and there is no evidence whatsoever that any attempt was made by certified mail. This would seem to be a violation of MRCA’s own rules, and I imagine that once their own “hearing officer” denies my dismissal, that an actual court of law would have to dismiss it on these grounds…no?

[Reply]
Comment by Kelley | June 30th, 2010

Got a ticket at Temescal on a Tues. a.m., no one, not even a ranger in the park. I have 3 kids, no time to fight this, but I’m outraged and strapped for cash. Has anyone not paid and gotten reported to collections? And if it goes to collections, if you pay like $5 a month, can they really do anything to you?

[Reply]
John Reply:
June 30th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
Look around the web on this subject. Especially interesting is a Pacific Palisades Gazette (or some such newspaper) indicating that there’s a class action suit. The video shows me (from behind) rolling through it. (see my post above) but I cannot pay it and plan to ignore it. There’s something mean-spirited about the whole thing. If you snoop around you’ll find they even put one at the end of a dead-end street! There’s something rotten and underhanded about the whole thing. I don’t understand the mindset, but they’re probably strapped for cash like everyone else. Problem is they’re scaring everyone away. I don’t even want to go back to these parks.

[Reply]
Comment by John | June 30th, 2010

Lawsuit Filed over Stop-Sign Cameras
By Sue Pascoe, Staff Writer
2010-04-08
http://www.palisadespost.com/news/content.php?id=5646

[Reply]
Comment by JS | June 30th, 2010

I went up Reseda Blvd (shown above) for a hike and received two citations on the same day. I was dumbfounded when i received the citation in the mail due to the unfair laws the MACR uses to their defense. They believe they can use loop holes in the our california code because their regulatory camera’s have the sole purpose of protecting their area of enforcement. if you take a look at the pictures above, the stop sign has no relevance to where it is located. The stop sign is put there just to scam drivers into paying these ridiculous fines. Their only defense for this regulation is so park visitors wont be in danger by on coming traffic. If you observe the picture above, the parking for visitors is no where near the actual stop sign, and if safety was the concern, they would have a purpose putting up the stop sign where the public parks and not a random area. I went up their with a couple of cars, and all of us received tickets. The fact that numerous people made the same mistake is evidence that the random placement of an unnecessary stop sign throws off park visitors. If anyone has been through this, going through this, or knows how to deal with this particular situations, I would highly appreciate any advice given to me. Thank you

[Reply]
Comment by Anonymous | July 1st, 2010

Notice that there is no stop sign when you go up. Most people slow down when see stop sign with nobody around. If you go to their website there is actually two forms that you can fill out. One of them is “Trial by written declaration” other one is “Waive of the fee due to hardship”. I am going to try first one if it doesnt work second one. The big question for me is if you dont pay will it go on your credit report.

Also, someone should make a separate website just for this issue.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
July 1st, 2010 at 1:25 am
http://www.mrcapublicsafety.ca.gov/

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SD Reply:
July 8th, 2010 at 9:47 am
Have you looked at the Hardship waiver application? It seems to me to be asking questions no govt’ agencies has a right to know (how much is your rent/mortgage, utilities, medical, credit card debt, etc.) and itemization of all your savings, checking etc. When you apply for a low-income discount with the utilities, for example, you have to give the amount that you earned last year and in some cases proof of that figure and that’s all. I’m unemployed and cannot afford this ticket but am very uncomfortable giving strangers a complete itemization of all my assets and liabilities. It’s more information than they need to know and feels intrusive.

The whole thing just feels ugly. It’s awful to know that the people who run our parks are like this. I don’t know if we can affect their personnel with our votes but if we can, we should.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
July 9th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
The hardship waiver is just for a delay in posting bail so you can go to the hearing without paying ahead of time. It does not get you out of paying the fine if (when) you are found guilty. Plus, they then have all this information about you to use in collecting the debt. I don’t recommend it.

As for what can be done, your representatives in Sacramento need to hear from you, both senate and assembly representatives. Many are actively supporting this action by the MRCA and need to know you will not vote for them if they continue to do so.

[Reply]
Max Reply:
July 16th, 2010 at 6:34 pm
Any luck with “Hearing by written declaration” option? I am considering the same thing.

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Anon Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 1:32 am
I returned the hardship waiver clearly showing that I was unable to pay the fine. Got a reply, denied. Must pay the fine to have a hearing.
How are you supposed to pay the fine if you don’t have it? In a real court, you have the option of doing community service. Do they offer such an option and if not, what are you supposed to do?

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 4:13 am
The short answer is they don’t care, they simply want your money. As far as I know there is no option for community service – see the sentence above. The only thing you can do is not pay it if you don’t have the money and take the hit to your credit report when they send your account to collections.

[Reply]
qwerty Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:42 pm
That’s “temporarily wave” the fee, plus in doing so would that mean you are admitting to the citation itself, and then required to pay once the temporary reprieve is over?

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Comment by Paul | July 1st, 2010

After getting my “ticket” in the mail I originally thought this was a scam by someone and was going to ignore it until I did a little research online about the whole issue. Needless to say I was more than a little upset about all this and contacted David Goldstein from CBS to inform him about this little scam. To make a long story short, he is looking for people who are willing to share their story “on air” (possibly) about all this. So if you are interested or even if you just have a little time on your hand and would like to share your experience, please email him at: djgoldstein@cbs.com
The more people he hears from about all this the more likely he will do an on air story about it and the closer we will get to stopping this scam.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
July 1st, 2010 at 2:58 am
I would recommend everyone contact David about this with their story. I have been discussing this with him and he is very interested in hearing from you.

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Comment by mary mary | July 1st, 2010

I got one too. Last week at Franklin Canyon. Bastards. Help me fight. And also, I want in on this class action.

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Comment by freedomminute | July 2nd, 2010

I just wanted to let everyone know that I spoke to the attorney about the class action suit today. There isn’t anything to report right now but he is continuing to go through the process of setting this up. He said you are free to email him with your info, although he might not be able to get back to everyone immediately, he will keep your info on file and contact you when appropriate. http://www.braunlawgroup.com/ Remember that this is not a substitute for fighting this on your own and my advice is to go through the steps to fight the ticket up to the point that it’s no longer worth your time and energy to keep fighting. I’m happy to help you as best as I can.

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Comment by SD | July 2nd, 2010

My first concern about these tickets is that the warning signs are much smaller than standard photo light signs you see around town. I hike in Temescal often and never noticed them.

The second concern is that they say you’re responsible for the fine even if you weren’t the driver. That’s got to be illegal. Drivers are responsible for their infractions, not the owner of the car. If I borrow a friend’s car and get into an accident, it’s my responsibility, not theirs.

But what’s weird and feels almost conspiratorial is that sometimes the left turn arrow on Temescal and Sunset doesn’t work. After waiting through several cycles of green lights, drivers end up driving the into the park to turn around. But there’s no U-turn at the main median, forcing drivers to drive into the parking lot and out this exit where the photo light is posted.

I go to this park frequently to hike (& park on the street, never in the lot) and the traffic in that lot is in dribs and drabs. This seems like pure revenue scam and one wonders why the MRCA would penalize those who love and use the parks in this way. If they’re hard up for money (are they?), why not raise money the honest way, through fundraisers and special events? This would engender greater goodwill for the parks, whereas this overreaching ticket policy has created enormous ill will against the MRCA. Shame on them for lining their pockets in this way.

[Reply]
Comment by daniel | July 5th, 2010

i got a $175 ticket at temescal after the park was closed. if anyone has info on how to fight it or the class action suit to join, please email me at daniel.reitzenstein@gmail.com

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Comment by Michelle F. | July 6th, 2010

I recently received a $175 ticket at Reseda Point. I honestly believe that this ticket is bullshit. The stop sign has no purpose being there. If anyone knows how to fight it or join a class action suit against this, please email me at mimi200543@yahoo.com Thank you.

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Comment by April Brown | July 13th, 2010

I got $175 ticket at temescal canyon and it’s just ridiculous. Put me on your list of people that want to get rid of these cameras. Thanks for the article.

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MAS Reply:
March 29th, 2011 at 1:24 pm
I got one too. How insane is this? I would love to be a part of this class action.

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Comment by SD | July 14th, 2010

Can you please update us on what is happening with the lawsuit? Calls to Mr. Braun’s office and emails are not being returned. Several of us have attempted contact.

While we await the slow process of a class action suit, could someone from Mr. Braun’s office fill us in on the legal means for fighting this? i.e., my guess is that it’s not legal in the state of California to issue a ticket if you can’t prove who the driver is, but the MRCA’s position is apparently that they are their own governing agency and stand outside of CA laws. How would we respond to that assertion in court?

If Mr. Braun can’t help then does anyone know another attorney who might?

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
July 16th, 2010 at 5:05 am
I will try contacting him to see what’s up. Also, there is a national group that may be willing to help, and I’m waiting to hear back from them. Might be a week or so.

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Comment by Angele | July 17th, 2010

Hi, I’m in the same boat…two $175 fines for a caught on camera stop sign violation. Please contact me at angelecfer7@yahoo.com as I would also like to fight not only the ticket but the injustice overall. Thank you.

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Comment by Tigran M. | July 17th, 2010

Hi there. I found your article to be quite informative and shocking. I received one of these $175 tickets on June 29th at 11:13pm and just got it in the mail today. It was at the top of Topanga overlook, where I could see clearly for a 1/4 mile in each direction, while pulling out of the park. I have read in several other sites that it is illegal for photo radar to be used for ticket issuing, and that the persons face must be readily identifiably. The photos and videos of my vehicle were taken from the rear at night, which clearly does not show me as the driver, but my license plate instead. I am not sure how to fight this if it is indeed illegal.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
July 17th, 2010 at 7:48 pm
Unfortunately, “illegal” is a relative term when it comes to the government. They can make what “you” do illegal and penalize you, but getting them to stop their illegal activities is a much more difficult task. More specifically, the other websites you mention are correct when it comes to penalties under the vehicle code and when you are charged with an infraction. Unfortunately, the MRCA is charging you with an administrative violation under their own ordinance and feels that they can do pretty much whatever they want. As to how to fight it, that’s the $175 question. It’s not going to be easy and there’s no guarantee of success, but if you just roll over and pay it, they’re just going to keep doing what they are doing.

If you want me to help you, contact me through the contact page with your email and phone number.

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Comment by Sheri | July 24th, 2010

I hope everyone contacts Mr Goldstein at CBS. Clearly this act is abusing our Constitutional rights and we are powerful in numbers. The media can work for us IF we work with it. Please email Mr Goldstein as the above persons resepctfully opened the door for us all.

Mr Goldstein’s email: djgoldstein@cbs.com

I would not pay them a penny for their entrapment and abuse!

You can also contact the law office involved with the class action case against MRCA

[Reply]
Comment by Anon | July 26th, 2010

How can it be legal for the MRCA to declare themselves outside the laws of the city, county or state that they are located in? Nowhere else could you get away with this.

I contacted Mr. Goldstein but received no reply, fyi.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 4:15 am
It’s not legal, but they will keep doing it until someone stops them. That means a judge or the State Legislature. We’re trying on both fronts. What are you prepared to do to help?

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Comment by Howard | July 26th, 2010

Perhaps small claims court would be an option to get the money back once you have paid it? Kind of a pain, but I can’t imagine MRCA could afford to keep going to court on multiple such claims.

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Anon Reply:
July 26th, 2010 at 8:52 pm
I’ve already written my representative & contacted the attorney and Goldstein.
What would you suggest?

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freedomminute Reply:
July 28th, 2010 at 8:03 pm
These are good starts. We’re going to have to get a groundswell of opposition if we want to affect change. Which representatives have you contacted and I would also call their offices. The representatives who would be the most effective would be your state representatives.

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Anon Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
I contacted Fran Pavley’s office and Sheila Khuel. I also spoke to representatives on the Pacific Palisades Community Council. They have been trying to fight this for 5 years, as i understand it. Apparently John Edmondson (sp?) the head of the MRCA, who is intractable and confident he cannot be fired. He’s also closed the much beloved Temescal pool.

I think we ought to let the governor’s office know that this man is extorting 2 million dollars a year from voters under their own rules and terms that do not comply with the state’s vehicle codes.

the palisades council, btw, meets this thursday 8/12 at the palisades library if anyone wants to come and bring this issue up with them.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 2:56 am
You’re going to get nowhere with Fran Pavley or Julia Brownley nor Sheila Kuehl. Both Fran and Julia are in Joe Edmiston’s camp (they’re even listed as his friends on Facebook). They block any attempt to reign in the MRCA. In fact, a few years ago I contacted Sheila Khuel’s office when she was still a state senator and when I described the illegal activities of the MRCA, her staff told me, “If the government is doing it, it must be legal”. This is what we are up against. However, a week from Friday I have a meeting scheduled with Assemblymember Mike Feuer. We’ll see what he has to say about the situation.

By the way, if you google Joe Edmiston, you’ll see how he has been able to build his power over the years to become, as one article called him, “King of the Hills” (although I think “Mussolini of the Mountains” is more appropriate). And just remember, the only way to oust a king is for the people to rise up and dethrone him.

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Anon Reply:
July 28th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
I have zero faith in our court system.

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freedomminute Reply:
July 28th, 2010 at 8:00 pm
I’m not sure if you can sue a governmental agency in small claims court. It’s an interesting idea. I’ll check and let you know what I find out.

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Eli Garcia Reply:
July 29th, 2010 at 2:32 pm
You can. First you have to file a claim with them (I assume you can just mail this in and wait a few weeks while they ignore it), then you can sue.

See here:
http://dca.lacounty.gov/tsSueGovt.html

Note that you only have six months from denial of the claim to sue.

Edit—

Sorry, six months from explicit denial.

It is considered denied if they ignore it for 45 days, and you can sue for up to two years after that.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
July 30th, 2010 at 9:18 am
Good information there. I have spoken to an attorney regarding suing in small claims and he is checking into how that would work in this type of situation.

[Reply]
Comment by meTarzana | July 26th, 2010

If they were concerned about safety they would have put a stop sign coming into the park also, not just coming out when one is looking around admiring the view. I am one of those who wants to join in any class action.

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meTarzana Reply:
July 29th, 2010 at 10:03 pm
Check this information out. Yes, they are/were in Northern California. http://www.highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamscameras.htm#MRCA

[Reply]
Comment by Follow the money | July 29th, 2010

Follow the money and see how much these administrative penalties fit into the MRCA budget (or money making scheme).
Their revenue report shows that the actual amount for admin. penalties (what they classify these tickets as) for 08-09 was $1,874,914 and a proposed revenue budget for 2010-2011 to be $1,990,000. Nearly 2 million a year comes from administrative citations like these. Sure not all the penalties come from these “tickets,” but you can bet that a large amount does.
Their buddies at RedFlex are also making a nice amount. Based on the MRCA’s payouts to them:
1/14/10 $39,303
2/18/10 $42,702
3/11/10 $44,627
4/8/10 $43,697.50
5/20/10 $34,232
5/27/10 $43,136.50
6/24/10 $30,800
Nearly $300,000 in 6 months to Redflex (which only gets a PERCENTAGE of what they take in for the fines). The 2006 meeting agenda where the MRCA voted to enter into a 5 year contract with Redflex shows each “ticket” payout to Redflex to be $25. Pretty good profit for the MRCA and I have to ask myself what have they been doing with all that “extra” money they collected from safety violations. Surely at least 25% has gone back into the parks to promote safe spaces and walkways (their justification for these stop sign cameras). Good luck finding the safety improvements. If this was truly about safety, then something more would have been done and with that much money signal lights could have been easily installed. I only went back to January 2010 to find all this information on their website, but this scam has been going on for a LONG time.
There was also no explanation as to why they increased the fine from $100 to $175. It can’t be that they are being charged more by Redflex because they have a multi-year contract that locks in the rates (I think for years). Budget cuts elsewhere and salary increases most likely led to this need.
At some point someone has to expose this for the money making scheme it is designed to be. Reading through their attachments it was interesting to see how many references there are to state laws and procedures, but when it comes to this issue they only adhere to their own administrative code.
When will it be enough?

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
July 29th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
Excellent work!

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Anon2 Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:33 pm
Those are amazing figures. If the system’s been in place 5 years, that’s 10 million dollars they’ve collected. Wow. Wonder whose pockets that’s lining.

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Comment by D in Cali | July 29th, 2010

I got one of these tickets and since this is not handled by the courts, I have refused to pay it. It went to a collection agency in Ohio they sent me a threatening letter, but again I have refused to pay. They cant do anything in terms of affecting your credit, or your driver license so i understand. Thus far nothing has happened to me. The fact that they make the citation look like an official court approved document (what ALL other traffic violations tickets are)and try to pass it off as such is also criminal and what they are really doing is committing extortion.

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freedomminute Reply:
July 29th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
How long ago did they send this to collections? Are you absolutely sure this has (or will) not show up on your credit report?

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Anonymous Reply:
July 29th, 2010 at 6:15 pm
I am sure it would take t least 3 month before it is going to be sent to collections. It says on their website if you dont pay it it is going to your credit report.

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Anonymous Reply:
August 6th, 2010 at 12:08 am
going to a collection agency is different than going to your credit report. Bills from collection agencies, unless for doctors or credit cards, do not end up on your credit report. These tickets say they will go to a collection agency if unpaid, so I say – let them. It does nothing to me except give me a few unwanted pieces of junk mail and a couple unwanted phone calls!

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 7:40 pm
My experience with a parking ticket many many years ago (which I think is a similar type situation) is that it is first sent to a collection agency and then eventually appears on your credit report if not paid. It stayed on my record for 5 or 7 years (I forget now). I personally didn’t care because I didn’t need to apply for credit during that time, but the situation might have been different if I was going for a mortgage or car loan while it was on there. I can’t give any advice as to how much impact, if any, this might have on someone’s financial situation, but I wouldn’t want anyone to ignore it without knowing that there was at least a possibility for some negative consequences.

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Comment by Tony | July 29th, 2010

I read somewhere on the web that there was a lawsuit filed against the MRCA in Northern California which they lost, and they had to pay back millions in fines they had collected, but I can’t find it now. If that is true, I wonder if they were found to be in violation of the California Vehicle Code, and if so, how is it that now they supposedly are not bound by the CVC. Does anybody know anything about this previous lawsuit?

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freedomminute Reply:
July 29th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
If anyone can find this, this would be great information to have. I didn’t think the MRCA operated in Northern California, so I wonder why there would be a lawsuit in that area?

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meTarzana Reply:
July 29th, 2010 at 10:10 pm
This website has lots of information. Go to Legal/Action heading. There is a fountain of info. there.

http://www.highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamscameras.htm#MRCa

Yes they were in No.CA. Very enlightening.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
July 30th, 2010 at 9:22 am
I’m very familiar with this excellent website, but I’m not sure what info you claim is there regarding a lawsuit in No. Cal.

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Comment by DaveD | July 29th, 2010

I got one of these lame MRCA tix on a trip to SoCal six weeks ago. I live in Colorado and do not make it out there frequently. Probably once every five years. What’s the downside of not paying the ticket?

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Comment by DaveD | July 29th, 2010

The bad credit report angle sounds like a stretch…

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freedomminute Reply:
July 30th, 2010 at 9:10 am
Not sure what you mean. Are you saying that the collection agency won’t notify the credit reporting agencies?

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DaveD Reply:
July 30th, 2010 at 10:10 am
I believe the impact of this single issue on an otherwise good credit report will be insignificant.

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tom henderson Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 5:05 pm
What are they gonna tell the credit bureau? All they have is a name and address. No DOB, no physical description, and most importantly, no SS#. Me thinks its a scam for those willing to get scammed.

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Comment by Tony | July 30th, 2010

What a drag, I guess I was wrong, it must have been some other agency that operates in Northern California that lost a lawsuit. Anyway I tried contacting the Braun law group about their class action lawsuit against the MRCA and so far haven’t been able to talk to them, just like a poster above. I also called my state assembly office – Fran Pavley – and complained to them and asked that they request a formal legal opinion from the attorney general’s office, instead of just the informal one in which they backed up the MRCA contention that they are not subject to the California Vehicle code.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the lawsuit, hopefully the MRCA will lose and we will all get our money back (I decided to pay my fine).

[Reply]
Comment by freedomminute | July 31st, 2010

Hey Everyone,

I may have a solution for those of you still fighting your tickets. I just sent an email to everyone who commented here or contacted me directly. If you didn’t get an email, contact me through the contact page above and I will send you the info.

[Reply]
Johnny Reply:
July 31st, 2010 at 11:51 pm
I got two tickets at Franklin Park. Unsure whether to pay but do not want my credit messed up. What do you think I should do? Thanks.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 1st, 2010 at 4:30 am
I always recommend contesting the ticket if it is at all possible to attend the hearing. Why just roll over and hand them your money? At least make them work for it. Also, attending the hearing is the first step in defending yourself. If you lose there, you can file for a new trial in Superior Court (costs $25) where you have a better chance of beating this with a legal argument. If you just pay it, all your options for fighting it cease. I will be posting more info on this later today. Check back here before you do anything.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
August 2nd, 2010 at 3:09 am
Well, you do have to pay it even in order to schedule a hearing.

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Howard Reply:
August 2nd, 2010 at 9:49 am
Here’s the thing about contesting the ticket — doing so is to admit that you received it. I don’t know about you, but my “citation” came via regular U.S. mail, whereas section 6.5 of MRCA rules clearly directs that “All citations, orders and notices required by this Chapter may be served either by personal delivery or certified mail… If the certified mail receipt is returned unsigned, then service may instead be effected by first, class mail…”

Well, I received mine via untrackable first class mail and we should all be able to challenge them to produce a returned certified mail receipt. I mean, if they are going to make up their own rules, then they ought to at least follow them!

Additionally, I don’t recall any signs or notices upon entering their “private property” (top of Reseda Blvd) stating that I was entering private property and must adhere to the owner’s rules rather than to standard California Vehicle Code. They can’t have it both ways.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 8:06 pm
January 15, 2010 update:
PAYING TO FIGHT IT, in my opinion no longer applies. Why?
1)Legislation has been passed to close the loophole that allowed this in the first place, but until MRCA recieves a cease and desist order, they will continue to demand money. This could take a while.
2)A class action lawsuit has been filed and is working it’s way through the court. If you “pay” for a biased hearing to contest it, which no one has won, you have already given MRCA what they want, the money. Enough people are involved in the class action suit, so there is no reason to pay. It will not affect anything from driving record to credit score. So what is the point? MRCA is on it’s last leg, not paying just kicks the one leg still standing.
If you want to get at MRCA, read post #163 as it has a good suggestion.
Good Luck to all and a speedy end to this scam.

[Reply]
Comment by freedomminute | August 2nd, 2010

@Anonymous Yes, according to their rules, you have to pay in order to request a hearing.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 2nd, 2010 at 8:38 pm
@Howard The current ordinance says this:

§ 6.5. Service of citations, orders and notices. All citations, orders and notices required by this Chapter may be served either by personal delivery thereof to the person to be notified or by deposit in the United States mail, in a sealed envelope, or postal card, postage prepaid, addressed to such person to be notified at his or her last known business or residence address as the same appears in the public records of the Authority or other records pertaining to the matter to which such notice is directed. Service by mail shall be deemed to have been completed at the time of deposit in the postal service. Failure to receive any notice specified herein does not affect the validity of proceedings conducted hereunder.

So as you can see, they not only make up their own rules, they keep changing them to suit their needs.

It seems they can have it both ways (in fact a number of ways) until some judge or the legislature stops them.

Of course the vehicle code has to apply within their parks, otherwise they’d have to create a whole set of vehicle use rules that just pertain to their property. For example, there’s nothing in their ordinance that requires you to have insurance or a driver’s license or even a license plate on your vehicle. There’s nothing that restricts driving to those over a certain age, so presumably a 3 year old can operate a vehicle in their parks. As you can see this is a nonsensical position to take. (But that hasn’t stopped the MRCA from taking that position.

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Anon Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
Not only do you have to pay in order to contest the ticket but if you are applying for hardship waiver (for prepayment prior to hearing) you cannot contest the ticket. That’s what I was told but that actually makes no sense.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 8:14 pm
It makes perfect sense to MRCA because either way they get your money. The hearings are simply a ruse to get your money which they have no intention of returning whatever your “argument” is to convince them your innocent. In order for a “scam” to work, it needs an air of legitimacy, and a hearing is their “air”, and bunch of hot air is.

[Reply]
Comment by rippedoffhiker | August 5th, 2010

I received one of these beauties on July 4, 2010 at the Reseda trap. I KNOW I made a full stop. I think the trick is you have to cross the sensor in the road and then stop. However, upon returning to the area today, Aug 5, 2010, I noticed that the sensors are only a few feet from the limit line. Therefore, even if you make a full stop, but don’t activate the sensor, you can still get a ticket. The California Driver Handbook states, “An eight-sided red STOP sign means you must make a full “STOP” whenever you see a STOP sign. Stop before entering a crosswalk or at a white limit line which is a wide white line painted on the street. If a crosswalk or limit line is not painted on the street, stop at the corner.” But, there is no indication of just what a full stop is or how far that really is from the limit line. One foot, two feet, 6 feet?? Today I did my best at getting close to the limit line, stopped, and counted to five. We’ll see what happens. Now really this is no different than being pulled over in a small town and arrested on a trumped up charge to extort money from you. Totally crooked!

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 6th, 2010 at 3:36 am
The only thing you are charged with is violating park rules and the rules simply say you have to obey the signs. There are no specifics and they can pretty much make up the rules as they go along. This is why allowing individual jurisdictions to make their own rules leads to abuses. When traffic laws are created at the state level, they go through a complicated process that hopefully results in clear and specific rules that are consistent throughout the state. And this is why the vehicle code is supposed to apply everywhere in California.

[Reply]
Eli Garcia Reply:
August 26th, 2010 at 5:42 pm
I also had a sensor issue. I didn’t come to a complete stop, but I know I slowed down MUCH more than the MRCA says I did. I think it was before I tripped the sensor though, and so wasn’t on the video.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 8:19 pm
When something is “rigged,” you cannot win. This system is rigged to fill MRCA’s coffers. They do not play fair, so do not expect a fair or straightforward answer from them. You will never get one.

[Reply]
Comment by tom henderson | August 5th, 2010

Got the $175 gift via the “park” at the So. end of Reseda Blvd. today. Viol was supposedly the 2nd wk of July.
If the notice is just shitcanned, where is their proof that I ever even received it?
Additionally, isnt there some law that mandates warning signs that photo enforcement cameras are in play?
This is perhaps even worse than the old speed traps in the south of the 60′s and 70′s. THis has nothing to do with safety, everything to do with generation of revenue.
I have never been a proponent of vandalism, but in this case, I could make an exception if someone targeted that camera.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 6th, 2010 at 3:38 am
They can’t prove that you got it. However, they will most likely report you to their collection agency (adding interest and fees) to try to collect.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 8:20 pm
A collection agency no doubt run by one of MRCA’s cronnies.

[Reply]
Comment by Peter | August 6th, 2010

Hi, I just received 2 of these stop sign tickets from Temescal Park within a couple weeks….How do I get in on the suit? Is everyone who is in the suit paying now with the hopes of getting the money back upon victory, or are you disregarding?

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 7:47 pm
Peter, you should email me through the contact page and I will send you the info.

[Reply]
Comment by Emily | August 6th, 2010

Does anyone know who presides over a hearing, if it is granted? A park ranger?

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 7:48 pm
It’s one of their employees as far as I know. It’s certainly not and independent person.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 8:25 pm
The hearing is “presided” over by, no doubt, a paid employee of MRCA that received specific instructions that under any circumstance, never admit wrong doing, and more importantly, NEVER,EVER consent to a refund. The hearing is a ruse to entice the weary to pay.

[Reply]
Comment by tom henderson | August 6th, 2010

This occurred to me today as I thought about this whole sitch. So, I just ignore the “ticket”. They go to a collection agency. I ignore them as well. How will they get my tele # to pester me? And how can they jam me up w/credit agencies, wouldnt they need more personal info, like my SS#, DOB, etc?

Also, I seem to remember hearing that if you respond, not agree with, but just respond to the collection agency and deny responsibility for the money, they cant do anything else but continue to pester. Perhaps someone else knows about the collection process. I have never dealt with one.

[Reply]
Anon Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:22 pm
Can’t they get personal info on you thru your license number via the DMV?

[Reply]
Comment by meTarzana | August 7th, 2010

I guess we will all find out I just sent one of my two tickets in with a check for $175.00 and a request for a hearing.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 8:30 pm
Another fee collected by MRCA. Dam those bastards. I hope you at least enjoyed the drive to and from the hearing, because everything in between was a despicable scam.

[Reply]
Comment by Adam - Woodland Hills | August 8th, 2010

I just received a “ticket” from the MRCA for a rolling stop at the Top ‘O Topanga Park and have been researching it’s invalidity. My greatest concern relates to the fact that there are no signs for the camera, no photo of the driver, etc, which goes against California State Law. Furthermore the MRCA’s system to request a hearing to contest the ticket requires a pre-payment of the full citation and it seems from the comments I’ve read online, no one has successfully fought it and won.

Clearly there are many citizens outraged at the MRCA for their brazen approach to our “protection” and concern over a seemingly illegal scam to generate funds for their organization. People have already started a class action law suit (the law firm handling this is posted on this webpage), and further more the Pacific Palisades Community Council has filed their own lawsuit contesting the MRCA practices. I have contacted the law firm requesting more information and I am posting here to add my voice to the community outrage.

Thank you Freedom Minute for giving such a clear and concise summary of the situation and for providing us a platform to share our thoughts.

[Reply]
tom henderson Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 5:01 pm
Ive thought about this sitch quite a bit.
*They cant hit you up with a “failure to appear” because you never signed a ticket.
*They have no idea who was driving the car, so they cant arrest you.
*They and the DMV dont cross SS numbers w/the registered owners.
*DMV doesnt keep regis owners tele number(s) or employment info, or DOB.
*How much info do they REALLY have to supply a collection agency, and in turn, how much info does a collection agency have to give to a credit reporting agency? I suspect that simply a name and address is insufficient. They probably get much more info from those who respond to their ploy.
*They (MCRA) have no evidence that you ever actually received the ‘ticket’. I could have been lost in the mail, IE.
*The vehicle code section for a stop sign viol is 22450VC. The MCRA says “A VIOLATION OF SECTION 4.0/4.2.1 – STOP SIGN”, never says a section of ‘what’. Its not the state vehicle code.

I think the biggest mistake that victims make is to interact with the MCRA. I am convinced its best to just ignore the notice. I suspect that this is a very shady operation,
reminiscent to whats going on with the city of Bell. Eventually, it will tumble. But I doubt that they will make retroactive refunds.

Saw this on their site:

What if I do not pay my citation?

Failure to pay the assessed administrative penalties and/or administrative costs specified in the administrative order may be enforced as a personal obligation of the VIOLATOR, which shall remain in effect until all of the administrative penalties, interest and administrative costs are paid in full.

They clearly acknowledge that they only know the registered owner, and not the VIOLATOR. This convinces me that this whole thing is a scam, hoping that people will be scared by their official looking notices, and will be happy it wont go on their insurance of driving record, and just pay it quickly. I read their whole park ordinance, which was adopted in May of 2010, incidentally. At the end, is gives the last names only of the four board members that votes ‘aye’ on the ordinance, and there are two signatures that are not legible, not do they have a printed name below them. I am convinced this whole thing is a scam.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 8:02 pm
Tom – You make a number of great points that would be valid if they were citing under the vehicle code. Unfortunately they are citing under their own ordinance which has less protection than state law (which is one of the reasons it should be invalid). Again, as a government agency they have to power to get whatever info is associated with the registration of the vehicle, then claim the owner is liable, add a bunch of fees and penalties, and then send the account to collections. As I stated in my reply to Anonymous above, my experience with a parking ticket many many years ago (which I think is a similar type situation) is that it is first sent to a collection agency and then eventually appears on your credit report if not paid. It stayed on my record for 5 or 7 years (I forget now). I personally didn’t care because I didn’t need to apply for credit during that time, but the situation might have been different if I was going for a mortgage or car loan while it was on there. I can’t give any advice as to how much impact, if any, this might have on someone’s financial situation, but I wouldn’t want anyone to ignore it without knowing that there was at least a possibility for some negative consequences.

And I’d love to hear from anyone who ignored this at least 6 months ago or longer to know what actually occurred with added fees, collection agencies, and credit reports. Anyone?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 8:32 pm
If anyone is NOT convinced by now, keep reading, please keep reading.

[Reply]
Comment by SD | August 9th, 2010

A little frustrated by lack of info from Braun office. If they are not going through with this, then perhaps we can find another class action attorney who will take our case? If there’s been 10 million or more taken from the public over the years, this might be an attractive case for any number of firms.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 7:54 pm
He said the following in his last email to me:

Hi Jay,
Got your message. We filed an amended complaint to which the Defendants demurred*. The hearing will be in mid Sept. No class has been certified so everyone who received a ticket is free to do as they wish with respect to filing other actions (criminal or civil).
Best,
Mike

*demurrer
1. (Law) A pleading that admits an opponent’s point but denies that it is a relevant or valid argument
2. any objection raised

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 8:36 pm
Class action lawsuits take time to wind their way through the courts. Do not despair, The Braun Law Firm is working dilegently, and will persue this law suit to its conclusion.

[Reply]
Comment by Mike Corcoran | August 10th, 2010

Just got one of these “citations” and will pay, because , despite the illegality of the camera enforcement, My son in law(driving) was guilty of a rolling stop(Sunday, no other traffic around and unlimited visibilty of oncoming traffic lane).

I’ve sent an email, and encourage others to do so, to the MRCA Secretary requesting email meeting notifications. Why not make more work for these idiots.

The content of my email is as follow:

Please add me to your email notification of meeting notices(MikeCorcoran@CorcoranRanch.com)

I just received an “Administrative Citation” for a stop sign violation in Temescal Gateway Park. The video shows that our vehicle(son-in-law driving)clearly braked, but rolled thru the stop sign. The citation, despite the fact that the video taken violates California Vehicle code, will be paid.
Evidently, 2 million dollars in annual revenue is hard to pass up for a state agency in today’s fiscal climate, even when taken illegally.
I guess having a job is the bottom line, but I can’t imaging how anyone with ethical standards can thrive in a situation your management has placed you in.

I see you currently have 10 legal actions pending. Amazing that an environmental “Conservation Agency”, who have such a sacred mission of public safety, would have such an extensive legal docket.

I look forward to receiving your meeting notices. I’m eagerly awaiting the expected notification of one or more class action suits related to these camera enforcement activities,
that will soon need to be addressed by your agency.

In case you’re not paying attention to the public response to your activities, the following links should get you up to date.

http://www.freedomminute.com/blog/state-government/the-100-stop-sign-scam/
http://www.palisadespost.com/news/content.php?id=5646
http://www.palisadespost.com/news/content.php?id=5382
http://www.onecitizenspeaking.com/2007/07/california-park.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jul/12/local/me-cameras12
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/18/1846.asp

Regards,
Jon M.(Mike) Corcoran

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 7:49 pm
I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I’m not sure we want the MRCA over here monitoring our discussion.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 8:39 pm
LOL Freedom Minute. But I hope they read every word and are sweating bullets. Payback is near, and it’s going to be a bitch.

[Reply]
Comment by Tigran M. | August 10th, 2010

I desperately need someones help. I received one of these tickets at the Top of Topanga overlook and my due date is August 23rd. Now, I have decided to pay the ticket and just move on, but I need more time to gather the necessary funds. Can someone please give me advice on what to do? I want to try and get an extension, but I’m not sure if they’ll even consider that. Is there some other alternative? I can’t do the hardship waiver cause they want the money upfront and I can’t pay up yet. Please help.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 2:58 am
Why are you going to roll over and pay up without fighting?

[Reply]
Tigran M. Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
I don’t want to risk getting my credit screwed up. I can always fight it afterwards, but as a temporary solution, I just want to pay it so I don’t have to think about it anymore. Because right now, it feels like a huge weight on my shoulders.
So is it possible to get an extension or postpone the due date for a while?

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 5:01 pm
You can try contacting Diana Hartman who administers the citation program. Her number is 310-858-7272 ext. 103. If you really just want to pay it, I’d suggest calling (you may have to leave a message) and explaining your situation but you may to waive your right to a hearing if you accept a payment schedule.

By the way, this is just another piece of evidence that all they are really interested in is your money.

[Reply]
Tigran M. Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
Thanks a bunch!

[Reply]
Tigran M. Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 6:08 pm
I completely agree with you. It is a money-making scheme. The part that really gets me is the fact that my citation was given at 11:13pm at night, when there were no cars in sight. It’s pretty unfair.

And that overlook is such a small and cramped place that it’s really hard to even notice the camera, especially at night, which is exactly what they hope for.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 8:44 pm
NOTICE TO ALL WHO SHARE TIGRANS FEELINGS OF JUST PAYING. That is exactly what MRCA wants you to feel.
PLEASE FOR ALL OUR SAKES, DO NO PAY UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES AS OF THIS DATE, JANUARY 15, 2010. THERE IS NO REASON TO PAY ANY LONGER. THE CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT IS UNDER WAY, AND LEGISLATION PASSED TO CLOSE THE LOOPHOLE THAT ALLOWED THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
MRCA WILL NOT STOP UNTIL THEY RECIEVE A CEASE AND DESIST, AND THAT COULD TAKE TIME.
GOOD LUCK

[Reply]
Comment by Howard | August 11th, 2010

I’d recommend as many people as possible email one or two possibly sympathetic columnists at the LA Times or Daily News. I’ve done this to Steve Lopez and the city desk, though with no response. But perhaps with more people writing, and with your own stories, someone at these papers will start to pay attention.

For the Times, email addresses are typically in the format of firstname.lastname@latimes.com. You can also write to newstips@latimes.com. Nita Lelyveld is metro features editor and Martin Beck is assistant metro editor.

For the Daily News, the metro/news desk is at dnmetro@dailynews.com. For specific columnists, email addresses are typically in the format of firstname.lastname@dailynews.com. Steven Rosenberg and Rick Orlov are a couple reporters/columnists who might be appropriate for this type of story.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
If anyone does get a response from a local journalist, please point them to this discussion and also let us know so I can make sure they have all the facts they need for their story.

[Reply]
Comment by josh | August 12th, 2010

I got one of these tickets a few years ago and tried to protest it. Somebody else was driving my vehicle and i received the summons. Their response was that i allowed somebody else to break the law with my vehicle so i had to pay the $100. It is total BS with lack of sufficient evidence. I still want my $100 back. If a lawsuit ensues, i want in.

[Reply]
Comment by josh | August 12th, 2010

Oh, and i did talk to Susan Pascoe of the palisades post… She wrote a few articles on this scam and knew of potential lawsuits. She eventually went silent.
I also called my representative and it went nowhere.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 8:47 pm
UPDATE AS OF JANUARY 15, 2011.
IT IS “GOING SOMEWHERE NOW”…. STRAIGHT UP MRCA’S A**

[Reply]
Comment by tom henderson | August 12th, 2010

I reread that interview with one of the ‘wheels’ at MCRA, who stated the stop signs are a safety issue, “for the children” etc. Hell, if they want to slow cars down, then they would install those diagonal speed bumps. Simple, far less expensive, and way more practical. No question, its just a money grab. Re the Reseda stop sign, did you notice that there is only a SS for the N/Bound traffic? Guess there is no hazard or children present on the S/Bound side.

[Reply]
Comment by freedomminute | August 14th, 2010

I’ve just added a new function to the site so you can get updates about the MRCA. Scroll up to the top of the sidebar and sign up for the newsletter and check the “MRCA Alerts” box under “You can also sign up for specific lists”. This way you won’t miss any new information about lawsuits or other actions we’re taking to stop this illegal money grab by the MRCA.

[Reply]
TheSolution Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 8:53 pm
Great feature to add Freedom Minute.

[Reply]
Comment by Rachel | August 17th, 2010

If you all haven’t seen it, check out the article the NY Times recently ran about this issue: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/08/us/08traffic.html. As a recent victim of this scam, I take some heart from seeing that politicians are finally acknowledge public pressure about this issue. An interesting find from the article was that these automated systems do not even necessarily improve safety (although this one was about cameras at stop lights):

“A study of seven communities by the Federal Highway Administration found that while the more dangerous broadside collisions were reduced by 25 percent at intersections with traffic lights that had a camera, there was also a 15 percent increase in rear-end collisions, possibly caused by drivers slamming on their brakes at the sight of the devices.”

Like the other commenters here, I am completely outraged that the penalty is so completely out of line with the “infraction” (if not slowing to a complete halt in the middle of a demonstrably deserted parking lot can be considered such), not to mention how murky the process is.

Even the fact that you have to drive out to the middle of the mountains in order to defend yourself against these tickets (which is where these hearings take place: 2600 Franklin Canyon Dr., Beverly Hills, CA 90210. Google it–it’s in the middle of nowhere) seems designed to dispirit and inconvenience you into parting with your money without a fight.

Please add me to your email list for the class action suit. This is absolutely egregious. No one should have to pay a fine this steep for so slight an infraction, in times like these.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 19th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
Thanks for the link to that article. I’m in the process of writing an article about the use of cameras for red light enforcement here in Los Angeles. You’ll be amazed at what I found out. Stay tuned.

[Reply]
Comment by Rachel | August 17th, 2010

Also, I’m not sure if you received my message, as your contact page seems to be buggy, but you referred above to a solution you might have for those still fighting tickets. My hearing is today at 12:45 p.m. If you have any information that would be of use, would you please pass it along?

Thanks so much.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 19th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
Sorry, it’s fixed now. The form broke when I upgraded to the most recent version of WordPress. Please let us know what happened at your hearing.

[Reply]
Comment by Alex | August 17th, 2010

Hi, I received a ticket and am interested in fighting it. In comment #43 above, you state that you may have a solution and to contact you directly, so I submitted a comment directly yesterday, but I’m not sure it went through. I’m posting this note too just to be safe, so please contact me if that possible solution is still valid.

Thanks for organizing all the info and discussion on this issue. Hopefully this will help make a change.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 19th, 2010 at 3:10 pm
Alex – Please use the contact form on my contact page to send me info on how to reach you.

[Reply]
Comment by palisadian | August 19th, 2010

I got my second “ticket” in the mail today and I just laughed. Last time they sent it to a collection agency in Ohio, I contacted the collection agency to let them know that this “ticket”, issued by a PRIVATE authority, was a violation of California State Law and filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau in Akron Ohio online. It took five minutes. Never heard from them again. I’ll do the same this time around. MCRA has as much right to issue these bills as you and I do for billing someone for parking in our driveway. If you’re stupid enough to pay, do it, but they are a paper tiger and can’t enforce these tix. Pretty much everyone here in the Palisades ignores them.

[Reply]
tom henderson Reply:
August 19th, 2010 at 11:11 am
Palisadian- -Just curious as to how much info the MCRA got from the DMV in order to give to the collection agency. Did they have your Tele# or Soc Sec# ? I doubt that a SS# is ever given to the DMV in conjunction w/registration. So, I am wondering if the DMV aids and abets this MCRA by offering all info listed on your D/L file when req by the MCRA? If so, I have to think that is a viol of privacy statutes on the DMVs part.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 19th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
You may never have heard from them again, but did it ever appear on your credit report and if so, was it taken off after you contacted them?

[Reply]
TheSolution Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 8:57 pm
I think the point should be, dont be ignorant and pay. Your here reading these posts for a reason. Take the solid advice above and under any circumstances, do NOT pay.
Good luck.

[Reply]
Comment by Clean record Pissed | August 19th, 2010

I got one of these Franklin park gangster ‘notice to pay’ demand letters from MRCA. Alledged violation happened on sunday July 25, video tape reviewed & issued 8-16-10 by MRCA ranger #564T Mr. TScattaglia, and recieved by common mail 8-18-10….They didn’t waste much time, now did they ?
In this ODD notice it strangely says, “As you can see from the photos to the right, a vehicle registered in your name and described below *appears* to have failed to come to a complete stop.” What ????!!! “appears” ???? No officer involved. If you do your Internet homework on this matter- LINK:
http://www.highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamsticket.htm#NotMe
IMHO: They don’t have a driver’s photo enclosed in this notice so the identity of the accual car driver at Franklin Park is unknown and sending this matter to the registered owner is not enough. Especially, when in the USA you have the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty in court of law AND have the right of personally confronting your accurser in a court of law. No photo of defendant driver, no law officer personally seeing the alledged violation…. this is unethical, illlegal, and fraud. Other legitamate law enforcement departments have cameras notices that have to include car license, photo intersection, and photo of the driver at the wheel at the time of possible violation. As to sending this onto a collection agencies, those are heavily regulated against harassing you by phone or letter due to federal laws governing that abuse. Also about reporting to this matter to your credit record, this is so small and so questionable as to negligible. And you can fight those bogus entries with the credit agencies. I was going to fight this just because it’s a clear case of law enforcement abuse. I want to make them work for their $175 admission fee to visit their park and I might be up for some guerilla tactics to cause some nuisance to the park of staff there. I’m up for report this to governement offcials, BBB, and everyone in Beverly Hills maybe it’s an election year for some?? My email is doberman1a @ Yahoo DOT com. Up the rebels on this….. !!

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 19th, 2010 at 3:17 pm
Your outrage is justifiable, but I’d caution against doing anything that might put you in greater jeopardy with law enforcement. As to the “It’s not me” defense, that works for photo red light citations as there are specific rules for the use of the cameras under the vehicle code, one of which is the driver needs to be identifiable. Unfortunately, the MRCA is citing under their own ordinance which has no such requirements. Again, we all believe this is illegal, but forcing them to stop is another matter.

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record Pissed | August 19th, 2010

You wrote…”MRCA is citing their own ordinance”. Such laws have to be publicly available for public knowledge and look. Anyone have a Internet link or book that I can get to learn about “their” ordinances…no matter how phony they are for the public. Send by email listed please or list here. I have 9-20-10 to make my decision on this matter.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 21st, 2010 at 1:41 am
The ordinance is supposed to be available at the MRCA website, but for some reason the link to it there is broken. Here’s a link to the most recent copy I have which is dated March 3rd.

Their ordinance is back up at http://www.mrca.ca.gov/MRCA_Ordinance_5-12-10.pdf They updated it (again) but I don’t think anything about the stop sign tickets has changed,

[Reply]
Comment by PS | August 21st, 2010

Hi everyone. Oh my God! I didn’t only get one ticket or two or three but FOUR. Can you believe it 4 tickets and probably counting. I had no idea about these cameras until I received these tickets. I’m a single mom, who works in Pacific Palisades, I was so happy that my daughter got to attend the camp at the temescal park through a financial hardship scholarship and then I receive these tickets. I have no way to pay for them. I’m loosing sleep, extremely stressed because I owe them $700.00 now. I am a very careful driver. I have never even been stopped by a cop. This park is so quiet, this stop sign is off a parking lot. I mean this is ridiculous. I have great credit and wouldn’t want to ruin it but I’m running out of options. In order to contest this you have to pay for it first, it’s so not fair. Please help me so I can join the lawsuit.

[Reply]
Howard Reply:
August 21st, 2010 at 10:30 am
Your story sounds like a great one for the KCBS report — financial hardship, kids, and a ridiculously hidden and absurd camera location with no warnings. See the July 1st post above for info, but you should contact them ASAP, as I believe they are getting ready to send the camera crews out on this story.

[Reply]
PS Reply:
August 23rd, 2010 at 8:05 pm
Just to update you guys I am meeting with KCBS tomorrow, they are interviewing me on this story. I just received 3 more tickets today. So I have a total of 7 tickets.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 23rd, 2010 at 7:56 am
Please contact me if you want the attorney to help you fight this.

[Reply]
LEI Reply:
September 6th, 2010 at 4:03 pm
I just received 4 tickets within the last two days and am worried more may be on the way as I went to Franklin Canyon park with my daughter 3 times in the last couple of weeks (and am apparently averaging about 2 per visit). This is outrageous and despicable and I’m very interested in participating in the class action suit. Thank you so much for trying to help us deal with this.

[Reply]
MurphysLaw Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 12:21 pm
I feel your pain…Am newly employed ( only part time ) in Palisades, and am in NO POSITION to pay mine.
* And I only got ONE….so far!
I was thinking what a nice place to take a hike…quiet, peaceful…NEVER crowded ( WONDER WHY? )
I will NEVER go in THAT PARK again!

[Reply]
Comment by freedomminute | August 21st, 2010

Check out my two newest posts on this subject: Hire an Attorney to Fight Your MRCA Ticket and FAQ About MRCA Stop Sign Tickets. They should answer a lot of your questions.

[Reply]
Comment by Tigran M. | August 22nd, 2010

I was just curious, the MRCA claims that this is not a moving violation. But when you think about it, doesn’t RUNNING a stop sign constitute a moving violation? What if you pay it and then find out that it went on your record?

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 23rd, 2010 at 7:55 am
I can pretty much guarantee that it won’t go on your record as they would have to cite you under the vehicle code for that to happen. Besides, they are only interested in the fine.

[Reply]
Tigran M. Reply:
August 23rd, 2010 at 5:01 pm
Oh I see, thanks.

[Reply]
Comment by rippedoffhiker | August 22nd, 2010

I put put up a sign on the camera pole warning of the camera.
I also tried to warn drivers, but no one seemed concerned!!

Oh well!

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 23rd, 2010 at 7:53 am
They’ll be concerned when they get a $175 ticket mailed to them. I’ll bet your sign doesn’t stay up very long.

[Reply]
Comment by rippedoffhiker | August 22nd, 2010

These cameras are everywhere. Driving last week, along Highway 41 from Fresno to Yosemite, there are cameras at just about every light. Pretty soon driving will be a liability, making it impossible to go out without risking a citation. Watch out for the ones at Long Beach Airport too!

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 23rd, 2010 at 7:51 am
I keep asking this question: Do we want to live in a society in which we are constantly monitored by the government so they can fine us for every little mistake we make? I know that’s not the society I want to live in.

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record Pissed | August 23rd, 2010

Been talking to Ms. Medina….racket victims should too.
-

I’m David’s producer, Nicolette.
When you get a chance, can you call me to talk about your ticket? My number is 818 – 655 – 2441

Nicolette Medina
Producer
CBS2/KCAL9 TV Los Angeles

4200 Radford Ave.
Studio City, CA 91604
818.655.2441
818.655.2440 fax
nmedina@cbs.com

[Reply]
Nicolette Reply:
August 25th, 2010 at 10:16 am
Please call me TODAY if you’ve received tickets at stop signs other than the location at Temescal.

Nicolette
CBS2
818 655 2441

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record Pissed | August 24th, 2010

What is the phone number, email, and mailing address to MRCA ?

Maybe, WE should send them thousands of anonymous ‘demand correspondences’ or flood their phone number, email, and mailing address ?
I like the idea of suing them in small claims over this. I have spoken to the CBS producer and will be meeting them soon. I might have to appear anonymously on camera in silhouette….LOL

[Reply]
Eli Garcia Reply:
August 24th, 2010 at 10:43 am
I also really like the idea of an annoyance campaign. Paper the hell out of them and make them work for our money.

[Reply]
Clean Record Pissed Reply:
August 30th, 2010 at 10:49 am
Tell them what you think of this ticket racket, face to face in Thousand Oaks on 2:05 PM on Weds Sept 1, 2010 in ‘public comment’ time !! OR you call call them or write them directly with this info.

-
Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority
Governing Board Meeting- weds, Sept 1, 2010

Notice is given pursuant to Govt Code ss54956 that the governing board of the MRCA will hold a ***special meeting on Weds Sept 1 ’10 at 2:05 PM at Conejo Recreation and Park District; 403 West Hillcrest Drive, Thusand Oaks, CA.***

Special Agenda:
1. Call to order
2. roll call
3. public testimony on all agenda items and public comment on matters not on the agenda.
4. Consideration of resolution requesting gubernatorial approval of AB 2554 (Brownley)
5. Closed session

MRCA may hold a closed session on the following items pursuant to Govt Code ss 54956.8 and 54956.9 Confindetial memoranda related to these items may be considered during such closed session discussions.

Conferance with legal counsel. Number of cases (10) 1. Robings v. Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy and Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority, Case No LC077488; 2. Robings v. Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy and Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority, Case No BC377233; 3. Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy and Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority v. City of Malibu, and related litigation; 4. City of Malibu v. Robings v. Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy and Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority; 5. Pfaff v. Bess, Case No 56-2007-00308501;6. Pfaff v. Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority; 7. City of Malibu v. California Coastal Commission, Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy, Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority Case No BS121650; 8/ Friends of Temescal Poll v. Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy and Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority, Case No BC405252; 9. Malibu-Encinal Homeowners Assoc v. Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority BC 431798 and 10. Estwick v. Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority BC434783.

Annoucement of Future meetings and adjournment

MRCA Special Agenda: Sept 1 2010

**Public comment is welcome on any agenda item and matters not on a agenda.** During the meeting the Governing Board may hold a closed session on any item pursuant to Govt Cade ss 54956.8 and 54956.9. **Unless otherwise ordered, individuals will be allowed THREE minute to speak and representatives of organizations/.agencies will be givien FIVE minutes.** For further information on any agenda item plaes contact Rorie Skei, Chief Deputy Executive Officer, at 310-589-3230, Ext #112.

NOTE: The entire agenda package and meeting related writings or documents provided to a majority of the Board members after distirbution of the agenda package, unless exempt from disclosure pursuant to Calif Law will be availbale at the Conejo Recreation and Park Distict Officies, 403 West Hillcrest Drive, Thousand Oaks, Calif. ***Any questions reguarding tiems on MRCA agenda contact Board Secretary at 310-589-3230 ext #118.***

[Reply]
Clean record pissed Reply:
October 1st, 2010 at 5:28 pm
There is another meeting, at the same place, with Agenda section 3 (public comment section) on Weds, Oct 6, 2010 at 2pm afternoon.

[Reply]
Comment by PS | August 24th, 2010

I was just interviewed by KCBS and I contacted the Braun Law group and a private attorney to stop this scam. I have received 7 of these tickets now.

[Reply]
Comment by Rachel | August 24th, 2010

When the story runs on KCBS, would someone please post the link here so we can all publicize it via social media, etc.?

I had my hearing last week, which was a total joke. I got my letter that they had denied my request almost before I got home.

I will post here on what to expect so everyone can be better prepared if they choose the “hearing” option. In the meantime, here is a visual on the incredibly professional hearing location: http://imgur.com/KfsYj.jpg

[Reply]
MurphysLaw Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
Wow!
You would think that with all the revenue, they would be lounging on velvet lined recliners!

[Reply]
Comment by PS | August 24th, 2010

I just spoke with attorney:
R. Allen Baylis

9042 Garfield Ave., Suite 306

Huntington Beach, CA 92646

Phone: 714-962-0915

He’s interested in helping us. He specializes in traffic violation cases. He would like to start a class action lawsuit or see if he can do something to help us. If you just received a or some tickets recently, he wants to hear from you. Everyone who’s interested in fighting for justice please contact him, he needs a good number of cases in order for this mission to be successful.

I will keep you guys posted of when the CBS will air. They are suppose to contact me and inform me since they interviewed me today.

[Reply]
Comment by Eli Garcia | August 25th, 2010

Hi All,

I am being interviewed at the top of Reseda by CBS around 3pm tomorrow.

I have my story, but would love to hear some quick talking points from all of you as to what I may want to bring up.

In particular, Nicolette mentioned having spoken with a woman who called the police department to ask about her “ticket” and was told that the signage isn’t even legal. Has anyone spoken with the police or other agencies that have to do with the signage?

[Reply]
Comment by Mason | August 25th, 2010

Great thread, great info, thanks. I’m wondering, what if a class action is brought against MRCA and the plaintiffs lose? And MRCA has brought a counterclaim against the plaintiffs (at least the ones who have not paid the fine) for the amount of the fines, plus interest? Might the judge order the plaintiffs to pay MRCA, which would be worse than just having MRCA’s “tickets” demanding payments?

[Reply]
Comment by rippedoffhiker | August 25th, 2010

I’ve been selected for an interview tomorrow with KCBS about the Reseda stop sign camera scam. Anyone have any suggestions as to what salient points to bring up??

[Reply]
Eli Garcia Reply:
August 25th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
Hey, I’ll be there at the same time, I think.

I’d also like some talking points (see 75 above).

See you tomorrow!

[Reply]
Howard Reply:
August 25th, 2010 at 4:23 pm
I’d have liked to done such an interview, as I was ticketed at the top of Reseda, but I have decided to simply ignore the ticket, as though it never arrived (and a TV interview would work counter to that).

The most obvious point is that the sign is placed in the middle of nowhere (no cross streets, pedestrians, etc) and has no corresponding stop in the other direction.

Secondarily, there were no warning signs at all when I got my ticket (not sure about now). Nothing attached to the stop sign itself, no “rules and regulations” upon entering the property, etc.

The above two points show that “safety” was not the goal.

More generally speaking, many of us paid for parking ($8?) at the self-service box, and many of us also pay an extra $40 per year as a direct assessment with our property taxes (listed as “MRCA OPNSPACE #2″ on my tax form). We support parks, but not these types of illegal fundraising methods.

[Reply]
Eli Garcia Reply:
August 25th, 2010 at 4:45 pm
I agree entirely.

The parks were quite safe before they installed the cameras, so what difference do they make, other than to park revenues?

Really, this is just one facet of a greater problem, which is that the folks up in the capital have blown all our money and can’t get their budgets in order, so government agencies are having to pass the deficit along to us with what amounts to hidden taxes.

I can’t leave the house without seeing two or three people pulled over and ticketed lately, especially around the end of the month. The police and parking enforcement are out in force.

It’s sad – there is a huge ‘sting’ operation near me on Pershing (around the west side of the airport) almost every weekend now. It has no side traffic, zero foot traffic, no nearby houses or businesses, very low traffic, and is fenced on both sides. Of course people drive fairly fast there – the street is wide and straight, comparable to a freeway.

The whole mess is just dirty.

[Reply]
Comment by rippedoffhiker | August 25th, 2010

Eli:

Is it 2PM or 3PM?? Nicolette said 2PM to me.

We should get there earlier to discuss what we will say.

A lot is riding on this!

Bruce

[Reply]
Follow the money Reply:
August 25th, 2010 at 10:11 pm
I am so glad to see this moving forward.
Some talking points I would bring up is the lack of traffic at THIS (Reseda) stop and the “safety” reasons they claim are the reason for the camera. If it was so unsafe why is there no camera in the opposite direction (unsafe conditions only exist one way???). With all the money they have made off of this scam and again if safety were the issue (ask how many accidents have occurred there) why not put speed bumps to slow traffic along the path? Mention the lack of and size of signage; the way the camera seems to be hidden on the way up the hill; Ask if they have taken video of the site in the evening when there are no lights up there and see how late they notice the stop sign (does not reflect well) in complete darkness. I am sure that the whole fiasco of contesting this ticket will also be mentioned…location of admin. hearing, persons involved, not being able to examine the evidence indepentently…the list goes on and on.
Good luck!

[Reply]
Comment by Eli Garcia | August 25th, 2010

It was 3PM, but she called back and rescheduled for 2PM.

We could show up a bit early to discuss. What time are you thinking?

I don’t know how much control we will have over the questions, or how much airtime we will need to be edited down into (assume not much), so I was planning on answering in short, but relevant soundbites.

[Reply]
Comment by rippedoffhiker | August 25th, 2010

Eli:

How about 1:30PM??

[Reply]
Eli Garcia Reply:
August 25th, 2010 at 4:57 pm
1:30 is fine. It will be good to meet and discuss a bit beforehand.

I am assuming Nicolette with have most of the facts and arguments already, and our part will be simply to show some outrage by local citizens who feel scammed. Could be wrong though – I’ve never done this before.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 25th, 2010 at 6:28 pm
I can meet you guys up there at 1:30 to help you prepare if you’d like.

[Reply]
Comment by rippedoffhiker | August 25th, 2010

Has anyone else noticed that the video looks speeded up?

[Reply]
Eli Garcia Reply:
August 25th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
It does look that way to me, but I have no real way of measuring. It could be real time.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 25th, 2010 at 9:44 pm
This is one reason the “hearing” (and this whole process) is so unfair. In a normal trial, there are rules as to what evidence can and can’t be admitted and if you can’t cross examine the person who claims to have collected the evidence and all the people who have had the evidence in their custody from the time it was collected to the time it is being presented as evidence against you then the evidence is “hearsay” and should not be admitted.

In the case of the video evidence, you are not being permitted to cross examine all the people who had access to it, nor the people who have first hand knowledge of how the technology works and whether or not it has been altered or tampered with in any way. The only people who can testify to these things are the people from the camera company and they are not at the hearing and you aren’t being permitted to cross examine them.

This is the basis of the decision that Allen Baylis won in Orange County and why it should now be more difficult (if judges follow the law) for automated photo evidence to be used against you in court.

[Reply]
Clean Record Pissed Reply:
August 30th, 2010 at 11:08 am
I work in video and editing….the tape looked like it was 2x actual speed. My brake lights were clearly on. Speeded up my ‘stop’ would look non-existant. I don’t trust a non-human accuser and that I have to prove myself innocent. That’s not the American way. They have to prove me wrong and I have a right to confront my accuser, NOT a camera.

[Reply]
joebanana Reply:
November 26th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
Fight it, it’s been ruled that the cop’s testimony is hearsay and not admissible (the cop that reviews the pictures, and writes the actual ticket)That’s how they were getting away with it for awhile, a cop reviews whatever the camera records, and if someone wanted to fight it in hopes that they wouldn’t bring in the camera, the cop would provide testimony that he reviewed the “evidence” and swears it’s legit, except, his testimony was recently ruled as hearsay, so it sets a precedent. But I’m not sure how that works with the park Nazi’s, since they have their own set of law (?)

[Reply]
Comment by Raiza | August 26th, 2010

I started reading all these replies and haven’t had the time to go through all of them because there ARE A LOT! haha anyways I am out of state and got one of these tickets in the mail. I proceeded to do some research as everyone here has because it is ridiculous. Three of my roommates have also received this same ticket. I am willing to be a part of this whole group to stop this whole scam. Does anyone have any ideas as to how to fight the ticket? Here are some things I came up with while doing some research that I haven’t seen posted here yet.

Having to pay the ticket violates your right to be innocent until proven guilty. Which is our due process right.

One thing I came across somewhere in the California State Law 21455.5 (a) that states a limit line, intersection or a place designated by section 21455, where a driver is required to stop may be equipped with an automated enforcement system if the government agency utilizing the system meets all of the following requirements:

1. identifies system by signs that clearly indicate the systems presence and are visible to traffic approaching from ALL directions.

I know that the Park on top of Reseda Blvd only has a sign if you are going downhill but does not have one when you are going uphill. That would be a violation of this State Law.

I read somewhere that a ticket cannot be issued by anyone other than a law enforcement officer. Also that..

Hearsay
Hearsay is another possible but untested defense that may work in court. Documents and evidence (photos) produced by non-government personnel are legally considered hearsay unless those responsible for the generation of the documents are present in person to testify about them. Evidence that is hearsay can be objected to and barred from being used in court, making the case against you extremely weak if not non-existent. At a minimum, and if applicable, be sure to emphasize to the court that the information being presented was not produced by anone present in the courtroom and that such evidence is to be discounted highly because of such. Go on to mention that the information being shown in court is from a financially interested party – that is, they make money if you are found guilty.

I’m gathering more information and writing it down…

[Reply]
rippedoffhiker Reply:
August 26th, 2010 at 7:08 pm
I was at the top of Reseda today for the interview with KCBS, and there is a sign at the barricade on the uphill portion of the road. I had not seen this one or the one at the bottom of the stop sign, which says “photo enforced” before today.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 26th, 2010 at 7:19 pm
I just looked back a the pictures I took when I posted this article back in May and the signs were up then. Of course, no amount of signage changes the fact that what they are doing is illegal according to the laws of California.

[Reply]
Howard Reply:
August 26th, 2010 at 9:18 pm
By mid/late June when I got my ticket, there definitely was no “photo enforced” sign attached to the stop signs. If there had been, I would have come to a complete stop — not because there was a need, but because I would have avoided a needless headache with the MRCA.

[Reply]
Comment by tom henderson | August 26th, 2010

Howard, Did you ck the video footage that they provided? I forgot to do that, but in early July, I sure dont remember seeing that dinky add on sign “photo enforced” below the stop sign.

[Reply]
rippedoffhiker Reply:
August 27th, 2010 at 6:42 am
In my video from July 4, the sign can be seen, although I don’t remember seeing it at the time.

[Reply]
Howard Reply:
August 27th, 2010 at 9:46 am
Mine was on June 20 — I just viewed the video again and it is there, sort of. The shape of the rectangle is there under the Stop sign, but it seems that it is blurred out. I’ll assume that it was indeed legitimately there.

[Reply]
Comment by Grace | August 27th, 2010

I received 2 tickets for violations at Temescal Canyon – I was not the driver. Paid to have a hearing (couldn’t risk a smear on my credit report), hearing took place on 8/21/10 via phone (i have since moved to no. cal.), received determination that violations are valid and they will retain my monies. Not only is this a financial hardship on me, I am outraged at the attitude of the MRCA. Left message for Lawyer Baylis today. If he can put the MRCA in its place and recover my $350, I am happy to pay him the $350. If it costs more than this, it will be difficult for me to pursue…

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 28th, 2010 at 6:29 pm
Grace – If you want to preserve your right to continue fighting this, you have to file an appeal with the superior court within 20 days of the decision by the hearing officer. It will cost you $25 but you will get that back if you win. Don’t miss this deadline.

[Reply]
Comment by Cathee Cohen | August 28th, 2010

I received one of these tickets in January 2010.

It was very early in the morning around 6am, the cloud cover was perfect. I drove to the “Top of Topanga” took a few quick shots of the sunrise, I must have spent 15 minutes just watching Mother Nature at her best. I drove back down Topanga and enjoyed the rest of the day.

About one week later, I was awaken by our Mail Lady who rang our door bell and had me sign for a letter. I had no idea what I was about to receive, but our Mail Lady informed me she has been delivering lots of “these letters” over the past 6 months (remember this was in January). I could not believe I ws getting a ticket, which I needed to pay for, could not fight, BUT get this this ticket had NO effect on my insurance!

So I went to the web site and sure enough I performed a California stop….and why not it was 6 O’Clock on a Saturday Morning.

I paid it without a fight! One because I really did not stop, but more importantly why fight a ticket which will not effect my insurance rates.

If I could fight it now based on what I just read I would! And I’m willing to join a class action suit!

[Reply]
Comment by Grace | August 28th, 2010

Yes I understand, thank you. The superior court location is in Van Nuys for some reason. And thank you for starting this blog and contacting Mr. Baylis and providing the information. He told me he won’t be filing a class action suit and proceeded to explain why, but I couldn’t quite catch everything he was saying with my toddler trying to talk to me at the same time. I will send him the documents I received from MRCA and then see what he thinks about my case. My husband and I also considered small claims court, but thought it wouldn’t be possible to file a claim since the MRCA is a government agency. Do you have any update on this alternative?

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record Pissed | August 30th, 2010

Let’s roll and stop this racket !!!! Let’s pull a ‘City of Bell’ residents public comment’s meeting on MRCA this Weds….
-
Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority
Governing Board Meeting- weds, Sept 1, 2010

Notice is given pursuant to Govt Code ss54956 that the governing board of the **MRCA will hold a special meeting on Weds Sept 1 ’10 at 2:05 PM at Conejo Recreation and Park District; 403 West Hillcrest Drive, Thousand Oaks, CA.**

Special Agenda:
1. Call to order
2. roll call
3. public testimony on all agenda items and public comment on matters not on the agenda.
4. Consideration of resolution requesting gubernatorial approval of AB 2554 (Brownley)
5. Closed session

MRCA may hold a closed session on the following items pursuant to Govt Code ss 54956.8 and 54956.9 Confindetial memoranda related to these items may be considered during such closed session discussions.

Conferance with legal counsel. Number of cases (10) 1. Robings v. Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy and Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority, Case No LC077488; 2. Robings v. Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy and Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority, Case No BC377233; 3. Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy and Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority v. City of Malibu, and related litigation; 4. City of Malibu v. Robings v. Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy and Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority; 5. Pfaff v. Bess, Case No 56-2007-00308501;6. Pfaff v. Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority; 7. City of Malibu v. California Coastal Commission, Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy, Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority Case No BS121650; 8/ Friends of Temescal Poll v. Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy and Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority, Case No BC405252; 9. Malibu-Encinal Homeowners Assoc v. Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority BC 431798 and 10. Estwick v. Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority BC434783.

Annoucement of Future meetings and adjournment

MRCA Special Agenda: Sept 1 2010

**Public comment is welcome on any agenda item and matters not on a agenda.** During the meeting the Governing Board may hold a closed session on any item pursuant to Govt Cade ss 54956.8 and 54956.9. **Unless otherwise ordered, individuals will be allowed THREE minute to speak and representatives of organizations/.agencies will be given FIVE minutes.** For further information on any agenda item plaes contact Rorie Skei, Chief Deputy Executive Officer, at 310-589-3230, Ext #112.

NOTE: The entire agenda package and meeting related writings or documents provided to a majority of the Board members after distirbution of the agenda package, unless exempt from disclosure pursuant to Calif Law will be availbale at the Conejo Recreation and Park Distict Officies, 403 West Hillcrest Drive, Thousand Oaks, Calif. **Any questions reguarding tiems on MRCA agenda contact Board Secretary at 310-589-3230 ext #118.**

[Reply]
Follow the money Reply:
August 30th, 2010 at 9:06 pm
Don’t forget to mention that the MRCA paid Redflex for their services for the month of July….a total of $30,800. If the orginial contract figure of $25 per ticket is to be paid to Redflex that means 1232 “tickets” were paid for and the MRCA made $185,000 on this scam.

[Reply]
Comment by Anon | August 31st, 2010

I just spoke to Bayliss and to be clear, he’s not talking about a class action lawsuit. He wants to represent a group in court to get their tickets waived. Whether or not that makes sense will depend upon how much it costs in legal fees to fight a $175 ticket. I have to pay my ticket imminently and was not clear from our conversation if he would represent someone who has already paid. I have no idea how much it would cost; did he give anyone an estimate?

I’m very disappointed with Braun’s office that no one seems to have received a return call or further info. Usually a class action attorney is interested in the class he represents (!) and is in communication with them somewhat regularly.

I wish I could attend the 1000 oaks meeting but cannot. Please keep us posted.

[Reply]
Comment by josh | August 31st, 2010

There are plenty of other traffic attorneys out there. I tried a person by the name of Arthur Tait for a separate matter. Tix Nix can be responsive too. It isn’t worth it on an individual $175 ticket but it would definitely be worth while if the lawsuit case was won.
I paid my MRCA fine to protest my ‘citation’ about 2 years ago and if reimbursed would give half, if not all of that money to see actual justice served to the MRCA. If everybody on this site thought the same, it would be a lucrative offer for an attorney… I’d love to see the MRCA go down. It is a blatant scam… and makes me wish i went to law school so i could put up a better fight.

[Reply]
Comment by freedomminute | August 31st, 2010

Is anyone planning on going to the MRCA board meeting tomorrow? If a bunch of people are going, I might be able to make it and we could let David Goldstein know in case he wants to send a camera crew out. But we’d have to let him know before the end of the day.

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record Pissed | September 2nd, 2010

Anyone go and report on the MRCA 1000 Oaks meeting yesterday ?
I imagine 2:00 PM is hard for most to get there on a weekday. Would like to know if anything happened like KCBS filmed it or any new reports came out of it….Fill me in.

[Reply]
Comment by Anon | September 4th, 2010

I spoke with Michael Braun this week. This is the scoop on the class action lawsuit.

The MRCA is undertaking an attack on the pleading (I believe it’s called a demur). Braun is currently answering that. They should have a decision within a few weeks.

Once they know whether or not they’ve prevailed, the process of certifying the class begins. He couldn’t say how long that will take. Once certification happens, then everyone who received a ticket will get something in the mail asking if they want to be considered a member of this class. The whole process is very slow.

Didn’t think to ask him what we could expect if the suit prevailed — would class members get back the full fee they paid, their fee plus interest, or only a percentage of the fee?

The answer to that question (as well as time involved) may make the difference to some as to whether or not they want to work with Bayliss or another attorney or just wait out the class action process.

In a class action, the attorneys customarily work on contingency and take their earnings from the judgment sum. Unless the judge awarded punitive damages, I’m guessing members will see only a portion of their fees paid returned.

[Reply]
Eli Garcia Reply:
September 4th, 2010 at 5:09 pm
Hell, if he can kick the MRCA in the balls for me a couple times, he can keep the whole $350.

[Reply]
josh Reply:
September 4th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
I agree with Eli! I said goodbye (and a few curse words) to that money when i wrote that check. At this point, i’d rather see the MRCA go down…. But hey, a few bucks back would be nice too….

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 7:20 am
Actually, in a class action suit, the attorneys are often awarded attorney’s fees, so their earnings don’t necessarily come out of the judgment. Plus, in this case, it’s easy to see exactly how much each person was harmed monetarily at least as far as the cost of the tickets are concerned. If there are other “damages”, then those might be harder to calculate and that portion of the judgment might be split up among the class members. Of course, there’s a long way to go before we have to worry about any of that.

[Reply]
Comment by Bob | September 8th, 2010

I got this ticket at Reseda about 2 weeks ago but I misplaced my ticket. Do you have the number to contact them regarding this violation and also if there is a way to fight it? I fought the red light camera ticket and won but this is different and weird. No DMV points but a collection agency? Please let me know, I really dont want to pay it if I can fight it

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
September 9th, 2010 at 6:23 am
Go to the home page of this blog and read the other two postings about the MRCA. They will answer many of your questions.

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record Pissed | September 10th, 2010

While investigating this racket on MRCA site, it says they can only charge $70 penalties on an unpaid “citation”. **Readers take special note.**
This ‘citation’ is a hidden park use or park entrance TAX or skim, nothing more. It is levied on gullible park users with cars.
Do not pay this Govt. Gangster-ism.

[Reply]
Comment by PS | September 10th, 2010

Hi guys, Yeah I’m still trying to figure out what I should do with my 7 ticket deal. Don’t know if I want to risk my credit getting screwed up. But I can’t pay it all up front anyways they would have to work out a payment plan with me.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
September 10th, 2010 at 5:13 pm
What is your deadline? I may have another lawyer interested in taking on these cases with the backing of the National Motorists Association. I should have more info next week.

Also, the hearing on the class action suit is Tuesday and I’m going to sit in on it and report back if there’s anything interesting that happens.

[Reply]
PS Reply:
September 12th, 2010 at 9:08 am
My deadline is 9/20. I spoke with Baylis but he’s going to be out of town till 9/20 and he still didn’t seem sure he wanted to take on these cases. Can you give me more information about this new attorney? That’s great that you will be able to attend the hearing for the class action suit. Yes, please update us.

[Reply]
Comment by Tigran M. | September 11th, 2010

Ok so I was able to get an extension on my ticket that was originally due on August 23rd, to September 18th, but I could only raise about 40% of the fine. Now, should I risk getting my credit screwed up, or should I try and ask for a payment plan? Is there anything else I can do?

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record Pissed | September 17th, 2010

NEW meeting notice of the **Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy** on Monday, September 27, 2010.

Monday- Sept 27, 2010
TIME- 7:30 pm meeting convenes, public testimony 8:00 pm
PLACE: Los Angeles River Center and Gardens,
570 West Avenue 26
Los Angeles, CA 90065

PHONE 323-221-8900
FAX 323-221-9001

[Reply]
Clean Record pissed Reply:
October 29th, 2010 at 10:17 am
Next chance to speak to this illegal citation racket in Thousand Oaks, CA (during its ‘public comment’ section) at MRCA meeting on November 3, 2010, same time- same place.

[Reply]
Comment by PS | September 20th, 2010

If you guys are interested in watching the news special on this topic I think it’s airing tonight at CBS 2 news at 11 pm (pst).

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record Pissed | September 21st, 2010

Saw the KCBS new’s piece. It was a helpful and precise in saying this matter is illegal in CA. The park official interviewed was sadly uninformative and confused.
I found another San Fernando Valley Blog mentioning these illegal cameras LINK:
http://tourthevalley.blogspot.com/2009/04/beware-traffic-cam-trap.html

[Reply]
Comment by freedomminute | September 21st, 2010

Here’s an update on the class action suit. I attended the hearing last week and spoke to the attorney at length. Basically, the judge felt the suit was being brought under the wrong section of California law but is allowing the attorney to amend their suit. He set a schedule for filing the amended complaint and then counter motions. The bottom line is that this will drag on a few more months before the suit is approved and a class is determined. I’ll keep you posted.

[Reply]
Comment by Follow the money | September 22nd, 2010

Let’s talk politics and the upcoming vote on Prop. 21, which will include an annual $18 vehicle registration fee to be used for (drum roll please) state parks! Isn’t great that not only is the MRCA running this stop sign scam they are also part of a group of parks that would get increased funding through this “fee” (they can’t say tax because it would have to be approved through the legislature). So not only do we get dinged with $175 administrative “fee” for an illegal stop sign camera scam that employs an outside agency to maintain the system and makes money from it (illegal), they are now asking for more EVERY year when EVERYONE in the state renews their registration.

I believe this to be a unique opportunity to be seriously heard by our State legislature, Governor, AAA and everyone else that supports Prop. 21 (and this list of organizations is long). Because now the MRCA’s parent group and all these supporters are trying to get something passed to increase funding for all their parks and this lone wolf group is out there doing whatever they want in order to increase THEIR revenue. It kind of makes the whole bunch look bad. I am sure they are very happy with the MRCA since the news story came out on CBS and it will only be a matter of time before the opponents of Prop. 21 (there are many out there as well) use this scam by the MRCA against the entire state parks system and say, one of their own has collected an enormous amount of money using “questionable” methods (in the name of safety). If they justify their methods for something like these stop sign “fees,” can you imagine how they will justify the way the use this new $18 registration “fee” on ALL vehicles in the state? I can hear the familiar tune of “This doesn’t apply to us because it is state park business and ….”

Call, email, and write! Now is the time to let them know that you have already been scammed by the state parks and refuse to be scammed anymore when it comes time to vote.

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Comment by Peter | September 23rd, 2010

I just paid for 3 tickets so it wouldn’t screw my credit…..But I definitely want to be a part of the class action suit once it gets going!

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Comment by CM | September 25th, 2010

I am from the state of FLA and was visting a friend in Topanga Cyn and got a ticket in Aug for the b/s stop sign scam. I actually came to a stop and they are still giving me a citation. Can anyone please tell me if I should pay this or not. As of now, I don’t want to pay this. Is this going to go against my motor vechile record? If anyone has more info on this scam please email me any information at Cmartinhoops@yahoo.com
Thanks for all the help

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Comment by Cathee Cohen | September 25th, 2010

Apparently this DOES NOT go againstyour DMV record, but if you do not pay the citation you will have collectors knocking on your door!

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Comment by Clean Record Pissed | September 27th, 2010

Let’s drop the scare tactics on this thread….This very small citation fee(relatively compared to other credit card charges) will not adversely effect your credit. I was told that anything fee’s under $800 can be selectively reported but not accepted by credit companies. And, you can fight it should it be erroneously on your own file, easily by contacting the credit keeping companies with an explanation. This citation fee is so highly questionable as to be a joke and only paid by the fear oriented, naive or gullible or financially affluent. I don’t.

[Reply]
Eli Garcia Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 3:00 pm
Where did you hear that small amounts won’t effect your credit report/score?

This is not true. A collections account is a collections account and will have an adverse effect on your score no matter the size of the balance due.

The exception is under FICO’s scoring model FICO 08, collections accounts with ORIGINAL amounts under $100 are ignored FOR YOUR CREDIT SCORE. However, not all creditors are using FICO 08, and this is a far cry from an $800 limit.

Also, note that that is for CREDIT SCORE ONLY. Note that ANY SIZE AMOUNT can be REPORTED to the credit agencies, and may end up in your report, even if it doesn’t effect your score, and creditors do look at your report as well.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Banking/CreditCardSmarts/new-risks-to-credit-scores.aspx

I don’t know about scare tactics, but it seems irresponsible to tell people not to pay on collections accounts for a reason like this.

Sure, if you don’t want to pay it, then don’t pay it – if you know how to fight it and deal with the CRAs then you will most likely be fine, but at least know what you are doing.

I have successfully fought a number of items on my CRA reports, but it is a bit of work, requiring some hours writing letters, filling out forms, and repeatedly checking your CRA reports to make sure that the change has actually been done, which isn’t necessarily the case just because they said it would be.

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Comment by Follow the money | October 3rd, 2010

The Daily News just did an article on this and claim that 889 tickets were dismissed, supposedly they are all residing in never never land.

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Comment by Clean record pissed | October 3rd, 2010

Daily News, LINK:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_stop_sign_cameras

Stop-sign cameras catch Calif. drivers off guard
=
LINK:
http://www.highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamscameras.htm

RED LIGHT CAMERAS
w w w . h i g h w a y r o b b e r y . n e t

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Comment by Tom Henderson | October 7th, 2010

I was traveling, and saw the same article “Stop Sign Cameras Catch Calif Drivers Off-Guard” in the Chattanooga, Tn. Sunday paper! And yesterday, 10-6-10, Doug McIntire devoted his front page column in the ‘LA Daily News’ newspaper to this scam.

BTW, I got caught beginning of June, and have ignored the initial offering from the MCRA. Havent heard anything since. Maybe they have the posture- -’Just take the easy money and forget the rest’ ?? Maybe?

Its a wonder how these rogue agencies come to exist. This Edminston character who basically “owns” the MCRA, is sounding more and more like that city mgr of Bell. Perhaps some sharp investigative reporter will do an expose on Joe Edminston. I would sure like to get a look at his personal finances. I wonder if he is raking in $800K/yr?

Could it be that the MCRA isnt agressively rousting the non-payers because they know it is a scam, and they dont want to rock the boat and have a big investigation?? Just sayin. . .

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Comment by Clean record pissed | October 8th, 2010

Know your opposition on this matter:

Doug McIntirer’s news article LINK:
http://www.dailynews.com/columnists/ci_16260945
“A few years back I opened my property tax bill only to find a $40 per year “brush clearance” fee from something called the MRCA. Having never heard of the MRCA I poked around and discovered it’s the Mountains Recreation Conservation Authority, an offshoot of the SMMC, the Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy. I also learned the $40 dollar “fee” would be on my tax bill for the next 30 years!

My poking led to Joe Edmiston, and Joe doesn’t like being poked. Edmiston generally keeps a low profile, no easy task for a man nearly as large as the mountains he lords over…”

Snipped for brevity..

“The SMMC was created by the California Legislature to preserve open space in the Santa Monica Mountains, an honorable objective. However, Edmiston – the SMMC’s only director in its 30-year history – is a classic example of absolute power corrupting absolutely. Unelected and unanswerable to the public whose money he spends and rights he tramples, Joe has a badge and a gun and runs his multi-billion dollar public trust like the eco-totalitarian he is. Edmiston created the MRCA on his own authority as the money-generating engine for the SMMC. All those millions of acres he’s bullied from private hands require cash to maintain, which has always been Joe’s Achilles heel. So he created his own election districts, hired his own ballot counters, ran a vote-by-mail election in June of 2002, saddling hundreds of thousands of homeowners with the bill. But that wasn’t enough, so now he’s snapping your picture at $175 a pop. What about fairness? Joe decides what’s fair. He answers to no one, not even the politicians whose names he puts on parklands we paid for.”
===
Joe must Go LINK:
http://www.fiveshock.com/joemustgo/
Forums LINK:
http://www.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?user=joemustgo
===
Background on Joe Edmiston article LINK:
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/JOE+EDMISTON'S+35,000+ACRES+MAKE+HIM+KING+OF+THE+MOUNTAINS%3B…-a083614837
JOE EDMISTON’S 35,000 ACRES MAKE HIM KING OF THE MOUNTAINS; CONSERVANCY DIRECTOR BUILDS EMPIRE, BUT MAKES ENEMIES ALONG THE WAY.(You can post your comments after the article)
===
Video with Mr. Edmiston LINK:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-8bd4KPPLo

Crisis Summit to Save L.A. Parks: Joe Edmiston, Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy
(**Writer’s NOTE: IN this video- Notice how Mr. Edmiston is instructing others how to beat the democratic govt. oversight system to get control over public lands into his private control.)

[Reply]
Comment by Tom Henderson | October 14th, 2010

The following was posted on the Daily News forum that followed the Doug McIntyre front page column of last wk.
**********************************************************
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/los-angeles-daily-news/TVQA6EM86121TCG1A
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Injunction against MRCA

Stop signs camera are legal; but violations should be enforced like an infraction, not a parking tickets.

I got a stop sign camera ticket in Franklin caynon park last year; challenged it and lost; challenged it again with the collection agency, a law firm out of Ca. they dismissed the ticket. How?

I’m a lawyer; researched the vehicle code and knocked that ticket. the collection agency preferred not to be in trouble for misconducts.

camera stop signs are not prohibited, but the parks are enforcing it like parking tickets, instead of moving violations. driver’s face must be visible and recognizable in the photo as the registered owner of the car, otherwise there is no violation.

the picture in my ticket showed only the license plate.

I’m considering to file a petition for injunctive relief; class actions require numerosity of plaintiffs; we may not have many plaintiffs to satisfy it.

Injunction will enjoin them from the scam, and no recovery for aggrieved drivers.

Azar Elihu
Attorney at Law

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Comment by darrell | October 14th, 2010

Thanks for the heads up. I’m going there tomorrow and would have certainly blown through this stop sign.

Darrell

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Comment by Rig | October 15th, 2010

I received one of these citations in the mail from September 17,2010. Just came across this blog tonight. Its late now so I will read up on the latest later, but I am definitely interested in fighting this and getting this scam stopped.

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Comment by Dave | October 17th, 2010

I just found this website searching for information regarding my tickets. I just got 4 tickets today. All for the same date and within a period of 3 minutes. I remember stopping at the stop sign very clearly at the top of Reseda Blvd. There was a caravan of about 20 bicycles riding past me through the stop sign, and I could not move because of them. The bicycles completely ignored the stop sign, and I am sure that is what triggered the camera that was pointed only at my car. I tried calling and explaining that I could not have ran through the stop sign four times in three minutes, and they won’t return my phone calls.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 6:00 am
You should be able to view a video of the alleged violations on line. If it’s clear you stopped at the sign, you should be able to beat this at the hearing. I definitely want to hear more about this. Contact me through the link at the top of the page so we can discuss.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
October 28th, 2010 at 9:07 pm
Dave – whatever happened with this?

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Comment by SARA WHITE | October 19th, 2010

HAS ANYONE THAT IGNORED THESE TICKETS GOT A HIT ON THEIR CREDIT REPORT????? OR IS THIS JUST A THREAT….

My boyfriend got 4 tickets in a 2 week period driving my car. I wrote to them in the hearing that I was not the one driving the car and also I am on unemployment right now with no job. They wrote back saying I still owe the 4 tickets fine of $700 total. I have excellent credit and do not want this to affect it.

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TomHenderson Reply:
November 1st, 2010 at 8:00 am
I got the ‘gift’ in June. I just ignored it. Then in Sept. I received a form saying I now owed $192.509 (10% added). Ignored that as well. No adverse affects so far. How do they know if I ever even received the notices in the mail? They werent sent via registered mail. And, they dont know my SS# or DOB, which has to be required info in order to cloud someones credit. The DMV, on a veh registration, only has the info on the regis, no other pertinent info. Hell, a regis owner doesnt have to even have a D/L. I would also think that privacy laws would prevent the DMV from sharing D/L info about a regis owner, void of any proof that the regis owner was the actual driver in the incident (park ordinance viol) that is the reason for the request.
Personally, IMHO, I think the MCRA will just take the easy money and not risk a battle, because their scam may generate unwanted attention, because that could lead to the death of their cash cow.

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Comment by rippedoffhiker | October 19th, 2010

They WILL ruin your credit. Justified or not, it is still an unpaid debt! However, since you are out of work, good luck for Arnie to collect! You can appeal, because you were not driving, and there is no photo to prove otherwise! Tell them you don’t know who was driving and be able to prove where you were when thew tickets were issued. Anyway, it’s your boyfriend who should pay. He was driving not you!! That of course, is your decision.

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Comment by Clean record pissed | October 20th, 2010

Not all artifically called ‘unpaid debts’ are accepted by credit report companies. Please google this and stop the scare tactics. You are innocent, until PROVEN guilty in the USA. This citiation should be enforced like a ‘moving violation’; NOT LIKE a parking ticket- so it’s an illegal citation. Your credit record can be easily corrected or removed from petty questionable and illegal stuff credit ‘dings’ like this once you take action. The out-of-state creditors cannot hound you for payment or attack your good record since there was no payment of this illegal fine.

***ALSO vote “NO” on the state parks Proposion 21 in Calif, if Prop 21 passes; our car registrations will INCREASE $15 per car you own and this additional million of $$$’s ‘boondaggle’ goes to parks departments is hugely unnecessary due to these hundreds of unscrupulous illegal stop-sign camera’s sending ‘prove yourself innocent’ administrative citations consistings of hundred thousand’s dollars sent out to rob park users under the color of authority.

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Comment by regretting I paid | October 21st, 2010

I received a camera citation at Temescal in July, regrettably paid the unbelievable $175 fine but requested a hearing. From what I’ve read here I’ve NO CHANCE of getting my money back (I’m the registered owner). If theres any actions I can become involved with, or if anyone has strategy for me, please share…….
Thanks!

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
October 28th, 2010 at 9:01 pm
Your only chance of getting your money back is if the class action suit moves forward and then is eventually successful. The next hearing is on Dec. 2nd or 3rd. I’ll post updates as they become known.

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Anon Reply:
November 10th, 2010 at 11:07 pm
If the class action suit prevails, will class members receive their full $175 back or will the attorneys end up taking the lion’s share and we get pennies on our dollars?

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Comment by djhall | October 25th, 2010

I just received the “revenue enhancer” at the Temescal Canyon Park. The
“driveway” was empty of traffic at 7:50 on a Saturday morning. In the video
it is obvious that I made a “California” stop. I want to schedule a hearing to fight the ticket. One can only do this by paying (upfront) the total $175 fine.
This scares me because once they have my money, I fear that I’ll never see
it again regardless of how well I prepare my “appeal”.
Do you have ANY SUGGESTIONS. Please contact me.
Thank you for your great work and writing! D. J. Hall

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
October 28th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
You are correct in that once you pay, the only way to get your money back would be to win at the hearing (unlikely) or at a trial in Superior Court. What defense would you use to fight the ticket?

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Comment by Billy pissed off | November 5th, 2010

I just have to add to this. I’ve gotten 4 tickets in total at this very same Reseda stop. My main gripe is that I got my first ticket three weeks after the first incident. This afforded me to make the same mistake three additional times in that three week span of time. I wish I was notified in the first week and then I would have stopped going there and saved 500 bucks! I’m tired of dehumanizing automated machines replacing people! I want humans to at least give me the tickets! Not computers! This has cost me half as much as I paid for my car!

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Comment by Michele | November 6th, 2010

From what I’ve read above, this is a very well-orchestrated, heartless, pocket lining scam targeting people who just want to enjoy the freedom of nature. Unfortunately, freedom in a MRCA Park comes at a hefty cost of $175.00 plus a handy “convenience fee”. I’m glad I live in New Hampshire, where freedom still means something! Good luck Billy!

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Comment by Cate | November 7th, 2010

I just rec’d a ticket on Sunset Blvd Temescal Cyn Park. I dont know how I ran this stop sign because it looks fairly obvious but the video shows I did it. The ticket was sent to my husband and we are both on the registration. It could have been run by any of the 3 of us that were in the car taking turns driving that day and none of us remember that stop sign! $175.00??!! OUCH!! Who is the main person to contact now? I read one of the lawyers isn’t so sure he wants to handle the class action.

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Comment by Clean Record Pissed | November 8th, 2010

MUST SEE Link. Automated Traffic Ticket and Parking Meters scam are happeing all over. People are gedtting smart and fighting back. Parking Meter racket in Los Angeles County, video LINK: http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Blogs/91.php

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Comment by Clean Record Pissed | November 14th, 2010

Wendy Gruel(sp?), LA city council JUST LOOKED into their traffic light auto-ticket cameras and was shocked to find that they were posted in councilperson’s districts as revenue enhandsement(money making) devices against LA drivers and NOT PLACED at exta dangerous traffic intersections as everyone previously thought and was told by city officials. LA is increasing their cameras to 86, doubling their number….

[Reply]
Eli Reply:
November 15th, 2010 at 10:49 am
Why shocked? Seems like a no-brainer. But then again, we are talking about the city council…

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Clean Record Pissed Reply:
November 17th, 2010 at 12:16 pm
It’s called LYING by city officials to their bosses the voters who are made to pay the bill for this crap.
Because the city council LIED to voters to get these montrosities paid for and put in: saying it was called for due to policing the most unsafeest interesections in LA. They said itr was for safety, and it isn’t- it’s for racking in the driver’s moneys, unfairly. Now the truth comes out, it’s every single council person’s personal piggy bank milking the voters in their district of $200,000 a MONTH !!! I can see the difference, maybe you can’t, I hope the voters do too in the next election…Vote the bums OUT !!

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Eli Reply:
November 17th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
What the hell are you talking about? Did you mean this reply to me?

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Comment by Clean Record Pissed | November 24th, 2010

LOCAL ONLY!!: Next MRCA meeting…see above posts with specifics of address and time. ***MRCA agenda for Wednesday, December 1, 2010**
PS….Some posting here are as dumb as a bag of rocks on these racketeer matters.

[Reply]
Eli Reply:
November 24th, 2010 at 7:46 pm
Which ones? If you mean mine, I am just thinking you need to work on your reading comprehension. Understand what people are saying before you rant at them with their own arguments =o)

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Comment by Clean Record Pissed | November 25th, 2010

PS…..Throw a rock in a pack of dogs and the one who yelps is the one hit.

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Eli Reply:
November 26th, 2010 at 12:38 pm
Seriously? Are we having the same conversation? I’m asking why Wendy Gruel was shocked at the city council ripping us off, which is obvious, and essentially their reason for being, and you are ranting my own arguments back at me along with a bunch of bullshit that doesn’t make any sense…?

Seriously, if you can’t read and comprehend simple English, then at least have the class to keep your mouth shut so you don’t look like a moron.

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freedomminute Reply:
November 26th, 2010 at 2:25 pm
Ok folks. I appreciate your passion about this issue, but one of the things I try to strive for here is being able to have an intelligent conversation without being rude to each other. We can disagree without being disagreeable. And, I think as to this particular subject we all basically agree anyway. I’ve reread the the posts here and I think you are both saying the same thing and just misunderstanding each other. So let’s just bring it down a notch and keep it a friendly discussion. No personal insults, etc. And I’m not singling anyone out, this is just the point at which I’ve chosen to jump into the conversation.

Thanks and keep on fighting the MRCA…

[Reply]
Eli Reply:
November 26th, 2010 at 7:44 pm
My apologies, Jay. My last couple replies will be my last in this little conversation, though I am sure not in the thread =o)

These last few posts have been like talking to a rubber brick. Everything I say goes boing, boing, and there is zero comprehension. Not an uncommon problem these days, unfortunately.

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Ray Parker Reply:
January 12th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
I refuse to pay this BS ticket. How can I get involved? Thanks, Ray

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Comment by Cate | November 25th, 2010

C’mon people, we are upset with the folks giving out these horrifying tickets not each other. quit acting like the pack of dogs you speak of! Geez, can’t anyone get along! Happy Thanksgiving even?????!!

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Comment by Clean Record Pissed | November 26th, 2010

My tone and posts here have been helpful and numerous for many weeks now. I don’t need to have some anonymous poster try to start something here by posting their ridiculous confrontational, combative, insulting and name-calling unhelpful posts. Everyone knows that their use and re-use of “Argumentum ad hominem” only feeds their own shallow keyboard Internet ego, LOL. Resorting to this personal name-calling of your opponents demonstrates that you have lost this discussion. I wouldn’t be surprised that the person posting those smear posts against helpful others here is a member of the MRCA, city government, ticket cameras corp or worse. “Be who you are and say what you feel; because those who mind, don’t matter and those who matter, don’t mind” -Dr. Seus

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Eli Reply:
November 26th, 2010 at 7:39 pm
Anonymous? I have been on TV about this issue – where were you? So now we know you haven’t bothered to read any of the other posts, in addition to misunderstanding the few that you have read. Classic.

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Eli Reply:
November 26th, 2010 at 7:41 pm
And I am the one here using my name! Or is “Clean Record Pissed” actually what your parents called you?

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Comment by joebanana | November 27th, 2010

If he is a troll, it’s working, he’s got you replying to your own comments. And no joebanana isn’t what my parents call me, it’s joebob.

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Comment by Clean Record Pissed | December 3rd, 2010

You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers.

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Comment by Tim | December 3rd, 2010

Just received a “citation” in the mail, any updates on this? Pay it or ignore it?

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Comment by LEI | December 10th, 2010

Would anyone who has refused to pay these tickets please reply about the outcome of threats to damage credit or escalating fines? Also, any updates on the pending class action lawsuit? I have 4 unpaid tickets totalling $700 with 10% penalties currently.
Thanks.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
December 10th, 2010 at 2:25 pm
Most of the people who have responded to this question have said that it has not shown up on their credit report even after a year or so. That is not a guarantee that it won’t show up for you, though. Unfortunately there is no definitive answer on this.

As for the class action lawsuit, it is moving forward and we may have a preliminary ruling on some issues in January but that is only one step on a very long road. Even if we prevail at this level, the MRCA will appeal and it could go as far as the California Supreme Court. That could take up to 2 years or more. Also, there is no guarantee who will be included in the class as the MRCA is trying to limit it to only those who pursued all their legal remedies (hearing and appeal to traffic court) as opposed to everyone who received a ticket. I’ll post more on what happened at the hearing next week.

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Comment by Clean Record pissed | December 13th, 2010

I am putting these things on , “ignore”.
BUT, it seems that there is more chance of a problem for recievers of these ‘citations’ if you have multiples citations or ALOT of money involved in these phony violations than only one. Your mileage may vary…

[Reply]
Comment by Fight Back in Sac | December 13th, 2010

I’m a little unclear on two things here,,

If you receive a ticket and don’t pay, does this agency use the DMV system to place financial holds on your registration?

Which code are they basing the appeal procedures on?

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Comment by xyz | December 14th, 2010

MRCA is analogous to a mall cop giving you a parking ticket. It looks official, there is a fake badge, and a fine.

Don’t pay it. They can’t “ruin your credit” they are not in authority to issue these tickets. They are mall cops, nothing to to be CA law enforcement. This is a scam.

Only the gullible pay, and that is what MRCA feeds on. The CAN NOT “ruin your credit” people. They will not and can not send it to collections. This is a scare tactic.

There is NO police officer or ANY law enforcement writing a citation. This is a PRIVATE company issuing citations. It is a mall cop citation.

[Reply]
Tom H Reply:
December 15th, 2010 at 8:58 am
I totally agree w/XYZ. I got one in late June, and ignored. Then got a letter asking for the orig $175 + 10% in Sept. Havent heard again. Just renewed the sticker for that veh 2 wks ago.
BTW, there was a segment on the John & Ken radio show yesterday aftn. It was all about the red light cameras in LA City and COunty (only). They had a bit from the #2 guy in the LAPD, Asst Chief Moore, who stated that there are hundreds of thousands of Red Lite tix that have been ignored, and other than threatening letters, there isnt anything further they can do. No DMV sanctions, no reports to credit agencies, nothing. Cant issue a warrant cause the driver never signed a “promise to appear”. Very interesting and informative segment. Basically, there is a Superior Court judge who presides over LA County and he has basically roadblocked the authorities from enforcing the citations UNLESS/UNTIL the violator responds to the mailing, and enters the court system. Then the violator is screwed. The message was, If the citation is totally ignored, then the violator will skate.

[Reply]
Comment by Tom H | December 15th, 2010

Here is the article re the red light cameras:
http://www.kfiam640.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=153218&article=7947702
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Red Light Cams No Revenue Generators
Tuesday, December 14, 2010 Email article | Print article | RSS

The LAPD has admitted there are absolutely no legal consequences for drivers who ignore red light camera tickets in the city.

That might be why the city has not been able to collect fines from some 56,000 drivers who’ve apparently just tossed out the tickets.

LAPD Assistant Chief Michael Moore explains it’s because LA County courts have decided automated fines and license suspensions are too harsh.

“There’s no warrant. There’s no collection that goes into a credit report,” Moore says. “There’s absolutely no consequences.”

The Los Angeles police commission has begun the process of renewing the city’s contracts for cameras.

They cost taxpayers because of those unpaid tickets. Advocates in the police department and on the city council say they make driving safer.

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record pissed | December 30th, 2010

The next meeting of MRCA meeting on Wednesday, January 5, 2011.
Consult my previous many posts on the MRCA meeting locally and it’s agenda, location, time.

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Comment by Tom Henderson | December 31st, 2010

I got the ‘gift’ from the Reseda Bl money machine in June. Ignored it. THen, in Sept. got a letter from the MCRA requesting $192. (the $175 + 10%). Ignored that as well. Renewed the regis in Dec. Havent heard anything since.

Also, there is a new state law that seemingly will render these stop sign cameras impotent if not decidedly illegal. Its SB 949, takes effect 01-01-2011. The MCRA sites the driver for a viol of some obscure MCRA park ordinance. The new law specifically states that the viol must be cited under the Ca Veh Code, and the section for a SS viol is 22450 VC. And, since thats a moving viol, it can only be issued to the ‘driver’ and not the RO. And it must be scored against the drivers record when adjudicated.

Point being, the MCRA is no more powerful than a security guard at the local grocery store.

[Reply]
Comment by Tom Henderson | December 31st, 2010

Looks like thin new law will render the MCRA’c camera’s officially impotent.

Here is the details of the SB 949:

“Senate Bill 949 simply clarifies state law,” Oropeza, D-Long Beach, said after citing a formal legal opinion by Legislative Counsel, the legal arbiter for the Legislature. “Several local governments statewide have recently made it their official policy to substitute their own local ordinances for defined violations and penalties in the state’s vehicle code for moving violations.

Such inconsistency in enforcing state law can only lead to confusion and distrust among drivers, Oropeza said.

She added that it also inhibits accurate collection of safety data used to track unsafe drivers and calculate insurance rates; and puts the state in danger of losing millions in federal transportation dollars.

SB 949 Motor Vehicles..jpg
class=MsoNormal style=”MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt”>SB 949 also received bipartisan support in the Senate, where on May 28 it passed 28-0. If SB 949 is signed into law, it would halt the recent trend by local governments to write their own vehicle codes to cite motorists for moving violations such as speeding.

Supporters of the measure include: The Auto Club of Southern California, the largest southern California organization representing the interests of motorists; the American Automobile Association Northern California; and Traffic Safety Consultants, Inc.

SB 949 will next face a vote on the Assembly floor; a date has not yet been set.

SPECIAL NOTE: The office of Sen. Oropeza can provide a Spanish-speaking representative to comment on this Press Release.

For more, visit Jenny’s Web site below.

Elected to the 28th Senate District in November 2006, Jenny Oropeza is one of the highest-ranking Latinos in the Legislature and chairs the Senate Majority Caucus. For more, visit http://www.senate.ca.gov/oropeza

[Reply]
Eli Reply:
December 31st, 2010 at 7:09 pm
Awesome! At least I think – haven’t looked into the rest of the law, but this part at least feels like a really good thing! As long as the state doesn’t start doing Photo Enforced stop signs all over the place =o)

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 5:41 pm
See my reply to Bernie below.

[Reply]
Comment by Cathee Cohen | December 31st, 2010

Does this mean I can go to the top of Topanga Cyn. tomorrow morning – The same place where I received ” a ticket “eariler this year- and spend a few hours ROLLING THROUGH THE STOP SIGNS IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA?
and, not worry about the Govt.coming after me for $175.00 I perform a California STOP!

[Reply]
Tom Henderson Reply:
January 1st, 2011 at 9:21 am
Cathee, I sure hope you didnt pay up the 1st time. In light of the new law, maybe they will quit citing the park ordinance code and start using the proper Veh Code section, which is 22450 VC.
But, I think I remember somewhere hearing that stop sign cameras are illegal in Calif and thats why the MCRA was using a park ordinance code in lieu of the VC section, to skirt that law.

The above post, re the MCRA having no more horsepower than the ‘mall cop’ are spot on. Only the uninformed will pay, and thats what the MCRA depends on.
Further, I gotta believe that the procedes from the SS cams go into a very loosely controlled ‘slush fund’ and actually help fund Joe Edminstons lavish Pac Palisades lifestyle.
(Edminston is the czar of the MCRA)

[Reply]
Tom Henderson Reply:
January 1st, 2011 at 9:27 am
Just occurred to me, they cant use the 22450 VC section, as thats a moving viol and must be issued to the driver, not the regis owner. Currently the MCRA cameras only take picts of the rear of the viol’s car, and not the front or the face or the driver. They would have to add some hi-tech (frontal view) cameras at every location, and usually, thats not feasible or even possible, because of terrain, property rights, access etc.

I think this cash cow is a dying breed, thanks in no small part to the internet.

[Reply]
Comment by Bernie | January 3rd, 2011

Apparently there is a new law that was passed this year that gives the MCRA the authority to enforce any regulation they wish… California Vehicle Code 21

21. (a) Except as otherwise expressly provided, the provisions of this code are applicable and uniform throughout the ( )1 state and in all counties and municipalities therein, and ( )2 a local authority shall not enact or enforce any ordinance or resolution on the matters covered by this code, including ordinances or resolutions that establish regulations or procedures for, or assess a fine, penalty, assessment, or fee for a violation of, matters covered by this code, unless expressly authorized ( )3 by this code.

(b) To the extent permitted by current state law, this section does not impair the current lawful authority of the Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority, a joint powers authority, or any member agency constituted therein as of July 1, 2010, to enforce an ordinance or resolution relating to the management of public lands within its jurisdiction.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
January 3rd, 2011 at 5:40 pm
This additional provision was added to SB949 at the 11th hour by supporters of the MRCA in order to protect them from the changes made to the vehicle code that definitively prevents cities from charging motor vehicle violations under their own local ordinances. Although it appears to allow the MRCA to cite under their own laws, in actuality it doesn’t do that. All it says is that if the MRCA was acting legally, nothing in the law changes that. I was at the most recent hearing in December for the class action suit and when the lawyers for the MRCA brought up this new law, the judge was very skeptical about it and basically said “I don’t know how you got this inserted into the law, but as far as I’m concerned, it doesn’t say what you think it says. It smacks of an earmark to me.” So, in effect, nothing changes, at least according to this judge. In reality, though, the legality of the MRCA’s actions will eventually be decided by the California Supreme Court.

In the meantime, I would seriously consider what other posters have said about how they ignored the citation and nothing happened to them. You have to make your own decisions, of course.

[Reply]
Tom Henderson Reply:
January 6th, 2011 at 8:02 pm
Bernie- -Are you really Joe Edminston or are you just one of his helpers?

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record pissed | January 10th, 2011

Don’t hold your breath for that response, Tom….just like I hope Joe Edminston is holding his breath for anymore citations payments ??? LMAO !

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Comment by UsedToLuvTheParks | January 10th, 2011

My $175 is due tomorrow and got a letter from a collection agency (RSI Enterprises) TODAY! What is this all about? They sent it to the collection agency BEFORE the due date??!!

I was actually going to pay tomorrow with my credit card (even though I’m in financial hardship) to rid myself of thinking about it, but now I’m confused and pissed.

Any advice before tomorrow’s due date (Tuesday 1-11-11)? I have clean credit and want to keep it that way. I have a wife and two kids and the good credit rating may come in handy down the line.

[Reply]
Comment by Freedom | January 11th, 2011

It has been six months since my alleged violation at the top of Reseda Blvd. I haven’t responded to either of the two notices I’ve received from MRCA, as I view their actions as illegal and unenforceable, and apparently as impossible to appeal with any success.

Since I am apparently not the only one who received a notice yesterday from RSI, I don’t mind sharing my response to RSI today. I just grabbed some of the following text from a couple websites that specialize in fighting collections agencies, but the code violations come from my own research into relevant laws. All they can really do at this point (legally) is take me to LA Superior Court (collections matters cannot be filed in small claims court), so are they really going to do that over $175?!? And if so, my wife’s an attorney and I have the law on my side. Perhaps my letter below will help someone here:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear RSI:

The “debt” you are attempting to collect is in dispute with the original source of this charge as to its validity under California state law.

This is to inform you that I dispute the claimed “debt” because the cause of this claimed “debt” was an illegal attempt by Mountains Recreations and Conservation Authority (MRCA) and its vendor, Redflex Traffic Systems, at collecting money from unsuspecting victims, and it violates sections 22450, 22451 and 21455.5(a)(1) of the California Vehicle Code, as well as sections 25132(b) and 36900(b) of the California Government Code.

Under the provisions of state and federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA), Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA), and related consumer statutes, I am hereby instructing you that you are to cease collection of the claimed debt until you resolve this error with the creditor. Until you do so, you should neither contact me nor anyone else except the creditor about this collection, and until you have investigated my dispute, you should not relay negative information to a credit reporting agency. If you must contact me, please do so in writing and not by telephone.

Your next contact with me should be either notice that the creditor has failed to provide verification of the claimed debt and that the matter has been closed or that you believe that this claimed debt is valid and are providing proof of my responsibility. If the former, please confirm that I am not being held responsible for the claimed debt in writing and also that if the account has already been noted on my credit report, that you will contact the bureau(s) in question to have the account removed. If the latter, I expect that you will provide me with an explanation as to why you have decided not to remove this account from collections and a copy of all documents relevant to the debt such as the application, bills, records of communications and payments, and any other data that indicates my responsibility.

[Reply]
john Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 9:08 am
Have you responded at all to MRCA about the fine?

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 4:29 am
Freedom (and anyone else reading this) – This is mostly good, but I might suggest demanding Debt Validation (as opposed to debt verification, which is different). Here is link to a good letter although you’d want to modify it for this particular situation.

http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/forums/debtverification-letter.html

Also, where did you get your info that “collections matters cannot be filed in small claims court”. That’s what small claims court is for. (Not that I think they’re likely to go that route.)

[Reply]
Freedom Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 9:42 am
I realize I may be guilty of believing everything I read on the internet, but it was noted under ‘Tips and Warnings’ on this page: http://www.ehow.com/how_6816886_dispute-debt-california.html

Then again, further research today found the same website’s page at http://www.ehow.com/how_6300976_collect-debts-california.html says that the collection agency CAN go to small claims court in this case.

Sorry for any misinformation on this.

[Reply]
Freedom Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 9:50 am
Sorry, but further research says otherwise, and this would seem to be official:

According to the CA Attorney General’s website (http://ag.ca.gov/consumers/general/collection_agencies10.php#legal), a collection agency can sue you in Superior Court; a collection agency may not sue in Small Claims Court.

I think the confusion is over who CAN sue us in small claims court. While a collection agency cannot (presumably because they are not the injured party), the MRCA (and perhaps Redflex) could…though it isn’t likely that any of them would sue in any court.

What seems like common sense logic offered by http://www.homebuyinginstitute.com/help/2009/01/can-collection-agency-sue.html :

“In the case of third-party debt collectors suing debtors, it just doesn’t happen very often. That’s because the outside collection agency is not the victim in a case of unpaid debt — the original creditor is the victim. So the creditor would normally be the one bringing the lawsuit, if there was one.

In those occasions when a collection agency actually does sue a debtor, it’s usually because the debtor agreed in writing to some kind of repayment plan, but then reneged on that agreement.”

[Reply]
lei Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 7:30 am
This is beautifully written. I will be handling my $700 worth of tickets plus fines exactly the same way. Thank you and your wife very much.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
August 23rd, 2011 at 10:23 pm
What happened after you sent this letter?

[Reply]
Comment by sherry | January 11th, 2011

freedom, i too ignored the first two notices of a traffic violation from mrca based on a photo of my car taken at a stop sign in temescal cyn park 5/12/2010 and upon looking at the video back then (it’s no longer available) it appears as if i sped up as i proceeded through a stop sign? tampering anyone? i can’t imagine i wouldn’t have stopped had the sign been in full view or made any sense whatsoever to be there? i honestly don’t recall but i do know i was creeping along as i was lost and trying to figure out where i was going. Now, though, i am in receipt of the collection letter from RSI enterprises and wonder if i should cut and paste your letter and send on to anyone in particular or the po box 16190 in phoenix? my fine has gone from $175 to $192 to now a cool $240.63!!! please let me know if anyone has any suggestions. i definitely can’t afford for my credit to be messed up. grrr
thank you for any help anyone can give me.

[Reply]
StandUp Reply:
January 12th, 2011 at 4:48 pm
A few thoughts on this matter…..

For all the people who paid MRCA, you were not only scammed, you actually help perpetuate the scam. If MRCA recieved no revenue from this blatant scam, they could not continue. So, not only shame on you for being so gullible and naive as to fall for this scam, you enable it to continue.
To all the people that paid because they where “afraid” it would affect their credit score… Many lives where lost in fighting for our freedoms and rights we now enjoy in the United States of America, and your “afraid” about your credit score so you pay what amounts to extortion? Pathetic.
It saddens and sickens me to know so many people succumbed to this scam. Even if it meant facing jail or worse, I would not pay MRCA one red cent.
I admonish you, my fellow Americans, to grow a pair. Stand up for what’s right, and fight what’s wrong. In the least, DO NOT pay anything to MRCA.
God Bless America

[Reply]
Comment by rippedoffhiker | January 12th, 2011

It may be a scam, but your credit’s shot for eight years! The government does whatever it wants. Sad but true.

[Reply]
Comment by IGNORE | January 12th, 2011

Bravo to “StandUp”
After reading all the postings, I am going to:

1)Ignore the attempt to extort $175.00 (No reply)
2)Ignore any collection attempt.
3)If any negative mark appears on my credit report, I will fight it out with the credit bureau.

Note: I have scoured the internet and read many if not all articles and postings on this subject and have not seen anyone claim that their credit was affected for not paying.

My feeling on the matter is reflected on the previous post. If no one pays there is no revenue generated, and if it does not generate revenue, the extortion attempts end.
Problem solved.

[Reply]
Comment by IGNORE | January 12th, 2011

To Ripped Off Hiker:
Your a perfect example of why this scam works. Just curious, Are you also afraid of your own shadow? As for “your credit’s shot for 8 years!” What? You obviously know nothing about credit. Anyway, to all the rest, DO NOT PAY.

I just had a thought, the ones who are posting that they just paid or are worried about their credit may be postings by MRCA.

And if you still pay after reading all of this, the next check you should be writing is to a therapist.
Good luck

[Reply]
Comment by Joe J Banana | January 12th, 2011

Just a note: as of the beginning of the year, stop sign tickets in the real world went up to $450, in LA county, add 170% penalty assessment fee, your looking at $765. Pass a school bus with it’s reds on $650+ p/a fee, park in a handicap without placard $1,000 + p/a fee.

[Reply]
Comment by john | January 13th, 2011

I have a lot of questions. Can anyone help?

[Reply]
Comment by john | January 13th, 2011

Does anyone know what the penalty fee from MRCA is for a $175 ticket if you don’t pay?

[Reply]
Comment by IGNORE | January 13th, 2011

You are in violation of reading a post you are not authorized to read. You are responsible for paying a civil penalty of $175.00. Failure to respond to this notice will result in assessment of an additional fee.

Would you pay? I hope the answer is no. So why would you pay MRCA? Let me answer for you, you should not.

MRCA is extorting money from you to generate revenue. Simply, they are exploiting a loophole in the system, which, thanks to people that actually fight this injustice, will soon be closed. If you paid them, join the class action lawsuit, and maybe you get your money back. If your still undecided on what to do after reading all these posts, you have issues beyond anyones help here.

In my humble opinion, paying is not only cowardly, but as “Stand Up” pointed out, perpetuates this outlandish money scheme. They are praying on the meek, and I for one am not going to allow myself to be victimized.

Wishing you all the best.

[Reply]
John Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 8:10 pm
Can you answer my questions?

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 8:23 pm
John,

On Dec. 31st, Tom wrote, “I got the ‘gift’ from the Reseda Bl money machine in June. Ignored it. THen, in Sept. got a letter from the MCRA requesting $192. (the $175 + 10%). Ignored that as well. Renewed the regis in Dec. Havent heard anything since.” If you have other specific questions that have not been answered in this thread or any of the other posts on this website, feel free to post them here or email me directly through the Contact link at the top of the page.

[Reply]
John Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 9:56 pm
IGNORE, I don’t get it. What do you mean “You are in violation of reading a post you are not authorized to read”?

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record pissed | January 13th, 2011

Do Not pay. They are using scare tactics on the naive. You are innocent UNTIL proven guilty, UNLESS YOU ADMIT YOUR GUILT BY PAYING THIS CITATION.

[Reply]
Comment by freedomminute | January 13th, 2011

Thanks to “Standup”, “Ignore”, and “Clean Record” for posting their thoughts on this. I encourage everyone reading this to consider their words very carefully. There comes a point where $175 has much less value than the freedoms we lose by allowing governmental powers to perpetuate these scams. I, myself, have spent many hundreds of hours fighting this as well as the City of LA’s Red Light Camera program (more on that later)and even at minimum wage that would be thousands of dollars. I do it because it is the right thing to do, because I don’t want to live in a world where these abuses go unchecked.

And if you really want to stick it to the MRCA, go through the process of fighting this ticket and appealing to the Superior Court. It seems the MRCA is so afraid of losing any of these cases in court that they are flying their attorney down from San Francisco to attend the hearing as well as sending 2 rangers and a representative from Redflex. If everyone started challenging these tickets, how long do you think they’d be able to keep that up? Sure, it will cost you $200 out of pocket (which you might get back later) and a little of your time, but isn’t that worth stopping the MRCA? If we don’t draw a line in the sand here, then where? When every stop sign in LA is outfitted with these cameras? Don’t kid yourself. All it would take is our legislators in Sacramento making some minor changes to the vehicle code and every road will become a toll road.

[Reply]
Clean Reord Pissed Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 11:19 am
Thanks to ‘freedomminute’ for the kind words. I wanted to help myself and others. Trolls here have done their best to provide ‘cover’ for this mailed robbery.
I believe and support your work and your motivation for setting up this important factual clearing house website. I have done some research on this matter and posted the website LINKS here.
I only hope new and old uninformed people suffering through this illegal & unethical ‘citation’ matters will take the time to read my and others researched informative posts here. **AATN: If people want to ‘face their accursors’, the MRCA meets one a month in Thousand Oaks, CA. Those MRCA meetings have a available ‘public comments’ time open to all to at least speak to this gang of criminals in their headquarters. I have posted those meeting facts and annoucment here. Enjoy!

[Reply]
Comment by John | January 13th, 2011

So here are my questions, and by the way thank you everyone, especially freedomminute and those who urge us not to pay. You have really alleviated a lot of stress for me. I received a $175 ticket for running the stop sign on Reseda. What was weird was that I almost didn’t open the letter because it was so indistinct, but when I saw that it was from a park agency I became curious. You all can imagine my shock and disgust when I saw that it was a ticket with a picture of my car. Fortunately, thanks to the internet you can find postings all over where people talk at a grassroots level about this scam and it can be defeated. As you can tell I have no intention of paying anything.

Here’s what I’m wondering: Taking a worst case scenario, that I get an extra fine for not paying, then a call from a collection agency, and then reported to a credit bureau, could I then fight it at the end of the track? Could I simply call the credit bureau and explain the situation and they’d dump the ding against me? And for that matter, how do credit bureau’s work? Should I care if I have a $500 fine against me? Is that really going to stop me from purchasing things? It seems unlikely, especially given my excellent credit rating and the fact that this red light business MRCA is doing appears illegal.

I think someone here wrote that they threatened the collection agency or credit bureau with a lawsuit and the situation was dropped by one of those entities. And no one has said anything’s shown up on their credit report. So why would we pay? By the way, that was the first time I was ever up in that area. I went a second time a while back and I’m sure I’m going to get another ticket from them, which would mean even more outrageous a total. I guess I’m just uneasy about receiving letters saying I owe a ton of money. But I guess I should just ignore them because they are just numbers and apparently MRCA has no way of getting the money, right?

And just to get it straight, the DMV and insurance companies don’t care and won’t ever be reported to, correct? What’s going on with the class action lawsuit? How can we get involved?

Evidently the whole red light camera thing is very shaky legally anyway, so the fact that the videos at these stop signs don’t even show the driver makes them flaky for sure.
I was also wondering: couldn’t a person just deny ever receiving the ticket in the mail? It’s not like they can prove it got to you. Come to think of it, how does the city hold you accountable for tickets when they are mailed regular?

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 5:08 am
John,

If you haven’t read my post FAQ About MRCA Stop Sign Tickets, I suggest you do so. Lots of good info in there. Here’s some answers for you to the best of my knowlege.

Could I simply call the credit bureau and explain the situation and they’d dump the ding against me?
You’d have to do that in writing. There is a whole lot of info on the web about this. Google “Debt Validation” and you should find what you are looking for. Here’s a site with good info and a sample letter: http://www.debtconsolidationcare.com/forums/debtverification-letter.html Note that this page uses “validation” and “verification” interchangeably at times but they are not the same thing. You want to demand debt “validation”.

Should I care if I have a $500 fine against me? Is that really going to stop me from purchasing things?
This question is a bit beyond the scope of this thread, but if it were to appear on your credit report (and that is a very big “if”) you would probably not want to just let it remain there. You would want to do everything you can to get it removed using what you learned in your Google search. However, you would, hopefully, have responded to the Collection Agency at an early point, disputed the debt, demanded validation, and then threatened them with legal action if they report the bogus debt to the credit agencies.

Couldn’t a person just deny ever receiving the ticket in the mail?
Sure, but that is more of a tactic you might use when disputing this in court. The CA and the CRAs probably aren’t going to care if you have been given proper notice to begin with.

And just to get it straight, the DMV and insurance companies don’t care and won’t ever be reported to, correct?
This is not being charged as a violation of the vehicle code so it has nothing to do with the DMV or insurance companies. It is more like being fined for walking on the grass.

What’s going on with the class action lawsuit? How can we get involved?
As far as I know they are still going back and forth on hearings about this. I’m hoping to get an update shortly. No way to get involved at this point. I expect this case to make it all the way to the California Supreme Court (unless the MRCA folds earlier, which is unlikely).

[Reply]
Comment by Shery | January 13th, 2011

But if there will b no repercussions by simply ignoring the ticket why pay it? We know our driving record isn’t affected and has anyone had their credit affected?

[Reply]
John Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 9:59 pm
It seems they are just hoping people will be dumb and intimidated and just pay without questioning. Most people don’t bother to question things. I can imagine that 90% of people don’t question the ticket, but pay right away. I have to admit though, it’s amazing to think that MRCA is doing something unenforceable yet so outrageous and just hanging by a thread hoping people pay them out of ignorance. But maybe it’s as simple as that.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 2:09 am
John, sorry to say but your description applies to most of what the government does.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 5:20 pm
I have scoured the internet and have read no complaints or statements about credit being negatively affected by this scam. They have not crossed that line because I believe it would bring to much negative attention to themselves and would effectively spell doom for their money train. Another theory is that an associate of Joe Dirt owns the collection agency for the sole purpose of collecting this money, which if investigated, would be bad for Joe.

[Reply]
Comment by Joe J Banana | January 13th, 2011

Anybody want to have some fun? Just pull over right before the stop sign and put some duct tape over your license plate, and keep driving through the stop. Don’t forget to remove it before you leave the park.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 2:07 am
Well according to the MRCA, putting duct tape on your license plate (or not having one at all) is perfectly legal since the vehicle code does not apply to their parks.

[Reply]
Clean Reord Pissed Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 11:25 am
Duct tape ???? But, simple non-destructive a smear of vaseline jelly on the original stop sign camera lense glass housing will do the same trick.
A few vaseline applications by patriots will no doubt result in the MCRA setting-up another phony ‘violation’ camera housing to be watching the original stop sign camera housing from being ‘vaselined’….LMAO

[Reply]
Comment by rippedoffhiker | January 14th, 2011

If you choose the civil disobedience route, be prepared to face the consequences. Just beacause you ignore the ticket and the collection agencies, doesn’t mean it will just go away. Yes it is a total rip-off and illegal, but the MRCA is an arm of the state govenment. Would you ignore paying taxes just because it is unjust?? The government has the power to garnish wages, enter a judgement against you, seize your bank accounts, and place a lien against your property. Believe me they can and will do it. I’m not a teabagger or an employee of the government, but get real everybody, seriously! Like me you did not make a full stop and received an unjust ticket. You can protest or make legal appeals, but you have an obligation to the government to pay the fine. I’m sure I will get some really vile responses, but get over it. I no longer park past the stop sign and neither should you. You have to work within the system to change the law, not make you own judgement calls!

[Reply]
tom henderson Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 7:04 am
rippedoffhiker, you sound much like one of Joe Edminston’s lap dogs. Hell, this country was built on people who defied the (then) official gubermint. The MCRA is a scam. I wouldnt be surprised if all the fines paid go into a giant slush fund that is used to reward state level politicians who have sanctioned the MCRA and grant it some type of quasi-official status.
MCRA head “ranger” deputy dog Joe Edminston lives high on the hog in Pacific Palisades, overlooking the ocean, on park ranger pay??? Whats wrong with this picture? Did all the suckers who paid the $175 help support his personal lifestyle? Ya think, just maybe???

[Reply]
FullStop Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
As “The Solution” has asked in his posting, what constitutes a full stop? what are MCRA’s criteria for coming to a complete stop? And since there is no third party checks and balances of monitoring the collection and storage of video evidence, how do you know the video was not altered for the appearance of a stop not being completed, which is so, so easy to accomplish. All that would have to be done is to remove the video frames of the vehicle completing a stop and presto! NO STOP.
Also rippedoffhiker, taxes are voted on, this stop sign scam was not. Your obviously not thinking clearly about this matter, and only scaring the uniformed with your talk of garnishing wages and tax liens gibberish. So do everyone here a favor, either offer a solution or keep your comments to yourself.
Thank you

[Reply]
Comment by Eli | January 14th, 2011

Kudos to you. I don’t really agree with you on a lot of what you said, but it is nice to hear somebody on here doing something besides yelling “ignore it, ignore it, ignore it!

People who are just looking to have somebody stroke them and say “ignore it and you will be fine” should consider that there is a difference between fighting an injustice and just sticking your head in the sand, ignoring it, and hoping it will go away.

In this case, there is a difference between “ignore it” and “fight it by not paying it”.

Fighting it is good – that’s why I have been involved in this for so many months and spend several thousand dollars worth of my own time on it. I applaud those who choose to fight it.

However, “fighting city hall” isn’t a thing that you do frivolously. Like any fight against a more powerful opponent, you should go into it well prepared. Understand what you are doing, and acknowledge that there will be a little effort and risk.

You fight because you have a reason to fight that is larger to you than the cost of fighting. Not because you think it will be easier to ignore it than to pay the $175.

So, yes, I say do fight it. Don’t pay.

But also don’t just ignore it and hope it will go away.

That said, I too expect that I will be flamed by any number of people who won’t bother to read or understand what I actually said before spewing BS all over it in response to the fictitious version of it that sprang into existence in their heads the moment they saw the work “kudos”. =o)

Oh, wait. I just realized I am really Joe Edminston or a member of some sneaky blog-sabotaging shadow organization nested within the MCRA, and just forgot. Damn.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
I believe the ignore advise is sound for the following reasons:
1)Statistically, the majority of people reading these posts will not fight for justice for whatever reasons or excuses, so…
2)If the “IGNORE” advice is followed, that is less revenue for MCRA, which should be one of the goals for everyone effected.
3)If revenue falls to the point that this scam is not profitable, it will end sooner than later.
4)NO ONE has stated anywhere it has appeared as a negative mark on their credit report, and I think I know why. If MCRA sent this to collection, and the collection company(which I believe was formed and is owned by an associate of Joe for possibly the sole purpose to collect this debt and no other)reported a false collection debt, the collection company would not only be cut off from reporting to the credit bereaus, but could possibly face a devasting lawsuit, and an ivestigation that would lead back to Joe.
So, to summarize, the ones who will fight, will fight with or without encouragement, and the rest would be well advised to IGNORE the request for money as the best way to deal with this.
NOTE: When you do recieve the collection letter, contact them and let the collection company know you will fight it and report them to the proper authorities for trying to collect on a false debt.
Good Luck

[Reply]
Comment by Eli | January 14th, 2011

Correction, saw the WORD kudos – =o)

[Reply]
Comment by John | January 14th, 2011

I dont agree with rippedoffhiker and i dont get a lot of what the last post is saying. We already know that the fine is not enforceable. We also know that it is outrageous that they are pulling this stop sign hidden camera scam. A couple of people have made the point clear that by not paying you’re protesting. So it seems to just blindly pay because its the “government” asking for the money is absurd. Government is not such a simple monolithic thing. And this issue is unique.

On another note, I’m a little wary now of hiking in some of these areas for fear that there will be more of these stop sign lights. I read here or elsewhere that there are sensors on the ground. Am I correct to presume that if we look for those we can avoid being sneaked up on by these cameras? Also, it seems there are about 4 or 5 of them in the area. Do we know of more or a map that stays up to date showing us the info? And where at the top of Topanga exactly is that one sign?

[Reply]
Eli Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 4:58 pm
I don’t see any maps or anything, but pretty much any of the parks managed by the MCRA will have them. I have encountered them personally at both Temescal Canyon and the park at the top of Reseda, whatever it’s called.

If you have a smart phone, you may want to look into trapster. A few months ago, they didn’t have photo-enforced stop signs on their radar, but I had a dialog with them about these, and they said they would likely add them. Can’t verify that, as I haven’t looked, but it’s worth looking into.

[Reply]
Eli Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 5:01 pm
See here. They are more likely to add them if people show support..

http://getsatisfaction.com/trapster/topics/photo_stop_sign_icon

[Reply]
BigTimeScam Reply:
January 17th, 2011 at 2:01 pm
The way the cameras are set up, EVERY VEHICLE that is exiting the park is videotaped. A motion sensor is activated when you pass the video camera, NOT when you reach an inground sensor at the stop sign. The video is taken from BEHIND the stop sign.
Therefore, I strongly urge everyone, DO NOT ENTER until the cameras are removed. Even if you come to a complete stop, you may still be fined. Why? Redflex, the company operating the cameras, falsified documents to convict motorists according to Arizona Secretary of State Jan Brewer.
For more information about Redflex, visit: fireredflex.com

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Reord Pissed | January 14th, 2011

I was sent this. The next MCRA meeting for the Conservancy meeting up coming Monday, January 24, 2011.

Thank you,
James Yeramian, Board Secretary
Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy
Ramirez Canyon Park, Malibu

(310) 589-3200, ext. 118
yeramian@smmc.ca.gov
boardsec@smmc.ca.gov

[Reply]
TheSolution Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 3:14 pm
With all due respect James Yeramian, attending a meeting hosted by MCRA seems pointless. To put it into perspective, do you think Hilter cared about complaints from the Jewish population he was slaughtering? Or is it affective to scold a hungry fox for missing chickens who is untrusted to watch the chicken coup? What is meeting the enemy on their turf under their rules going to accomplish? Numerous meetings by MCRA have been held in the past with this subject brought to their attention. The only action MRCA has taken from what I have read is to do everything in their power to continue. It seems to me that instead of using valuable time preaching to the choir, everyones time would be better spent contacting the proper legislators and demanding change, joining the class action lawsuit if you qaulify, and taking real action to limit the revenue from continuing until those changes are not only made, but enforced. Once again, with all due respect, if I am missing the point of attending an MCRA meeting, please enlighten me.
Sincerely,
The Solution

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Reord Pissed | January 14th, 2011

“rippedoffhiker” your post was hilarious and a fun fear tactic. Get a grip!

[Reply]
Comment by TheSolution | January 15th, 2011

I have not seen anyone ask what I think are the most obvious questions at the heart of this issue:
1) What is the criteria MCRA uses to determine what a “complete” stop is? (Where must you stop and how long?)
2)Why is there no indicator light or other means to inform a person that they have in fact met the criteria for coming to a complete stop or failed to completely stop?
Without a clearly defined criteria, NO ONE can be expected to follow the “rules” or be expected to pay a “fine” for not doing so.
I think we all agree this is unjust, or we would not be here.
It is obvious to me and everyone else I hope, that this is not about peoples safety, as MCRA claims, it is about generating revenue. Whether or not the revenue generated is for a good cause is irrevelant. It is about right and wrong, and this is clearly wrong.
THE FACTS:
1) MCRA is generating revenue in an unethical manner.
2) Paying a fine to obtain the “RIGHT” to attend a “hearing” is just another option to get you to pay. (Disagree? Common sense dictates you DO NOT PAY BEFORE, and that they have what they want, your money, with NO incentive to return it. They collected the money from you unethically, so why think they would suddenly become ethical at a hearing that they control?)
3) The way MCRA has set up their video camera system, they have video of EVERY CAR that is exiting a park as it approaches a stop sign. EVERY CAR.
4) MCRA could easily and cost effectively ARCHIVE AND ALTER ANY VIDEO of ANY CAR exiting a park to appear that it did not come to a complete stop.(Think they would not? The question you should ask is: Why would they not?)
5)There is no third party, or unbiased entity or agency monitoring MCRA’s stop sign revenue generator to ensure an already unethical practice is fair.

THE ONLY REAL SOLUTIONS:
1)Legislation to close the loophole that MCRA is exploiting.(I believe this is happening or has happened. Update anyone?)
2)Then, until MCRA is FORCED (I do not think they will stop until forced) to cease and desist through a court order and the cameras are blinded or removed, INFORM the general public of the facts of this matter BEFORE they enter a park that is monitored by a stop sign camera.
How to accomplish this?
My suggestion is to form a group of volunteers to hand out “WARNING FLYERS” at the entrances of the parks with known cameras.
ATTENTION FREEDOM MINUTE: I think it would be helpful to post at the top of this page: 1)A NOTICE TO TAKE ACTION 2)A Map listing all known STOP SIGN CAMERA LOCATIONS. 3)A way to organize volunteers(I am open to suggestions) 4)A link to a pdf file with a factually written, agreed upon, and uniform WARNING FLYER that can be printed and distributed by volunteers at park entrances to unwitting motorists entering the park. I would be more than happy to help write the flyer and volunteer time.
Until MCRA is stopped, I (and others) feel this is the best course of action as it would severly limit MCRA’s revenue and save many from being victimized. I also think it would be appropriate to find and post JOE EDMINSTON’S home address and hold protests there.
I for one would truly enjoy the satisfaction of cutting off this source of revenue from MCRA. Together with the right actions, we have the power to end this.
IN CLOSING:
It’s time to take action. Let’s limit future postings to SOLUTIONS shall we?
I will monitor the next posts to see if anyone agrees and is willing to take action. Otherwise, the next time you visit a park with a stop sign camera, you may find one man handing you a warning flyer.
Wishing all of you the best.
The Solution

[Reply]
Comment by TheSolution | January 15th, 2011

ATTN FREEDOM MINUTE:
I am embarrassed and want to apologize for not including the following in my previous post.
THANK YOU. Thank you for your hard work and dedication to make this forum possible. Thank you for standing up for whats right. Thank you for allowing myself and others to post our comments and concerns and allowing our voices to be heard in the truest sense of what constitutes free speech. The United States of America is the name of our country, but in my humble opinion, The United People of America is what truly makes the difference.
Thanks to you our voices are being heard, our thoughts are being shared, and our passion for what’s right will prevail.
God bless you, God bless America, and screw you MCRA.

[Reply]
Comment by John | January 16th, 2011

Who would be the proper representatives to contact to complain about MRCA? At the least we can do an email writing campaign.

[Reply]
Comment by John | January 17th, 2011

Also, so we all have it straight, what exactly are the legal arguments against what MRCA is doing; what we’d want to argue against a collection agency or credit bureau?

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Reord Pissed | January 18th, 2011

This Thurs eve- Jan 20th 2011, in the Los Angeles area, KCET’s TV show ‘SoCal Connected’ will explor the use or misuse of red light automated cameras in our cities. See your local Tv show schedule for the channel and times. (#28 at 9pm thursday in LA)
PS……If people want a ‘recap’ of these issues try:
1. read the post comments here
2. read the Internet LINKS posted here.
3. google this matter and read.
4. read, read, read, read.
It’s that simple. Come on !

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
January 18th, 2011 at 9:37 am
The legal fight is being waged at this time in the form of a class action lawsuit. Legislation (from what I read) has been passed to end this abuse by MRCA, but apparently not “enacted.” Anyone with an update?
As “The Solution” pointed out, energy should be spent informing the general public from being victimized as we have.
Boycott and picket the parks, as that is the last frontier of this fight that is not being waged, yet is the most critical in stopping the money flow to MRCA and Redflex.
So instead of “read, read, read, act, act, act.
Organize protects at the entrances of these parks.

[Reply]
Clean Reord Pissed Reply:
January 19th, 2011 at 9:08 pm
If you’re talking about large groups of voters protesting and picketing the many MCRA places where these illegal traffic cameras are ????
I’m up for that. I have done that on another issue.
Someone needs to organize those picketers. Maybe this website owner ??
I know that a few people stationed at those vicious camera covered stop-signs points to hand out either; printed flyers or business cards explaining & expousing this unethical issue.
I know you can get 500 business cards from Vista.com for under $5. This is an informational protest or picket. Put a few good folks with US flags out there passing out information, and the gangster revenue of those cameras will be NIL.
I’m ready to do this…Make them work HARD for that dirty gangster moneys.

[Reply]
Comment by Tigran M. | January 18th, 2011

I just got the letter from RSI Enterprises. Should I pay the $240 or ignore it?

I think if I don’t respond to it, they won’t have any way of knowing that I even received the letter in the first place.

Let me know what you think.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
January 18th, 2011 at 3:58 pm
Paying perpetuates the scam. DO NO PAY.

[Reply]
john Reply:
January 19th, 2011 at 8:17 am
What does the letter tell you? Why $240?

[Reply]
Tigran M. Reply:
January 19th, 2011 at 11:29 am
This is what the letter says:

REdflex Traffic Systems has assigned this balance($240.63) to RSI Enterprises for collection on 1-11-11. Please remit payment for the total amount owing. Return payment in full with the bottom portion of this letter to RSI Enterprises.

Sincerely,

RSI Enterprises, Inc
Account Representative

Then at the end of that it says in bold letters, “This communication is from a debt collector. This is an attempt to collect a debt. Any information obtained will be used for the purpose.”

I think it’s 240 because I didn’t pay the first time when it was 175, so then they made it 192 and I didn’t pay that, and now its 240.

At the bottom it also says, ” Unless you notify this office within 30 days after receiving this notice that you dispute the validity of the debt or any portion thereof, this office will assume this debt is valid.”

Now I’m not sure what to do.

[Reply]
John Reply:
January 19th, 2011 at 11:12 pm
According to posts here, blow it off. It’s apparently a scam. Read all the posts and decide.

[Reply]
Comment by Joe J Banana | January 19th, 2011

If these guy’s have all this time on their hands, there’s some National park land that’s been taken over by the Mexican cartels, and warning signs posted for Americans to keep out. Right there in Arizona.

[Reply]
john Reply:
January 20th, 2011 at 1:53 pm
what guy’s?

[Reply]
Comment by Joe J Banana | January 21st, 2011

The guy’s stuffing envelopes with bogus tickets, must be a full time job.

[Reply]
Comment by Tom Henderson | January 22nd, 2011

phoenix.gov/streets/stop.html
When asked if stop signs slow traffic, here is the response from the City of Phoenix and many other cities, here are some exerpts:
************************************************************
Will More Stop Signs Slow
Traffic On Our Street?

STOP signs installed in wrong places …

…usually create more problems than they solve.

Many requests are received for STOP signs to interrupt traffic or to slow speeding vehicles. However, studies in Arizona and across the country show that there is a high number of intentional violations when STOP signs are installed as nuisances or “speedbreakers.”

Nuisance STOP signs also increase air pollution, waste fuel and create more traffic noise.

Neighborhood streets with low traffic…
… tend to operate best under the State Right of Way law.

Under the right conditions…
…STOP signs can play an important role in traffic safety. National standards have been established to determine when STOP signs should be installed. These standards consider traffic speed, the number of vehicles, sight distance, and the frequency of “gaps in traffic” to allow safe vehicle entry or pedestrian crossing.

For safety purposes, when STOP signs are used, they should stop vehicles on the street with less traffic. Four-way STOPs are helpful only when traffic is high and approximately equal on all four approaches. At least 500 cars per hour, for a substantial portion of the day, are needed to make four-way STOPs beneficial.

Most drivers are reasonable and prudent. When confronted with unreasonable and unnecessary restrictions, motorists are more likely to violate them, and they usually develop contempt for all traffic signs…often with tragic results.

Remember, STOP signs

* DO NOT STOP SPEEDING
* INCREASE AIR POLLUTION
* INCREASE NOISE POLLUTION
* WASTE FUEL

[Reply]
Comment by john | January 27th, 2011

Nevermind all the legitimate reasons why stop sign cameras are nonsense. What we need is the legal argument to give to the collection agency when they send us a letter and if need be, the argument to use with the credit bureau. Again, can someone simply list the legal arguments as to why we shouldn’t have to pay and what we can tell these organizations so they drop the fine and don’t ding us?

[Reply]
Comment by Tom Henderson | January 27th, 2011

Not sure, John.
Note to all: I got the tix in June. Ignored it. Got a 2nd letter in Sept req the orig $175 +10% = $192. Ignored that as well. Never heard anything further. This wk, in an att to refi my house, the bank asked me to expl a “collection account with Alliance One for $261, reported 11/2010″. I looked up Alliance One, they are in Philly, near DC. I filed a complaint w/the area BBB, saying that I had never heard of Alliance One, nor had I ever gotten any notice from Alliance One. (And that is true, I have never had any correspondence from them.) The first two offerings from the MCRA were via regular and not registered mail. I will keep all posted re my outcomes. I will refuse to pay anything, regardless.

[Reply]
Comment by john | January 31st, 2011

anyone out there?

[Reply]
Eli Reply:
January 31st, 2011 at 9:03 pm
Nope.

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Reord Pissed | February 1st, 2011

People are here, just not responding to empty comments as some post. Peoipe should do their homework here and elsewhere and see that this is a illegal joke or ‘shellgame’ scam on innocent voters and citizens.
I would like to organize a informational protest at the Franklin Canyon camera positions to inform and STOP the system cold.
But I’m not every minute obsesssing about this illegal gangster government scam.
Understand?

[Reply]
Comment by john | February 1st, 2011

What? I’m not posting any empty comments. I’m asking for a rundown on talking points to use with collection agency and/or credit bureau.

Also, what representatives should we contact? Council member? Congressman?

[Reply]
Comment by Tom Henderson | February 2nd, 2011

I made a post on Jan. 27 about an entry on my credit for $261. by “Alliance One” collection. I am looking into it, but I am thinking that LA City is the architect of this collection attempt. I used to have a city business license, and didnt renew it for 2010, as I was long since in that business. Well, since I didnt renew or tell them I was out of the biz, they sent a renewal form (to an old address). SInce that didnt get sent back to them, then declared it delinquent and started up-ing the vig. Similar tactic by another governmental agency, its just that I dont think the MCRA is behind this one.

[Reply]
john Reply:
February 2nd, 2011 at 4:57 pm
Does that change the circumstances or does it still make sense to blow the ticket off?

[Reply]
Comment by Tom Henderson | February 3rd, 2011

John- -blow it off. I just heard from the BBB re my question.
The contact w/the collection was started by the City of LA, not the MCRA. It has to do with an expired City Biz Lic.Here is their reply:
********************************************************
“I am writing in response to the concerns expressed to your office by Mr. Thomas Henderson. Thank you for the opportunity to respond on behalf of AllianceOne Receivables Management, Inc.

Our organization was referred an account for collection on August 18, 2010 belonging to Mr. Henderson from our client City of Los Angeles – Finance Department. The account does not stem from an unpaid credit card or bounced check. Upon receipt of this complaint, we have requested additional information that we will forward to Mr. Henderson for his review.

[Reply]
Comment by courtdate | February 8th, 2011

I paid and had an unsuccessful MCRA hearing for my Temescal ticket, now I’m scheduled for the Superior Court this week. Can anyone recommend specific legal arguments that I should make to the court?

[Reply]
john Reply:
February 8th, 2011 at 11:27 am
Wow, you actually went through MRCA? What was that like?

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
February 8th, 2011 at 2:39 pm
I just sent you an email to contact me and I will try to help you the best I can.

[Reply]
Comment by john | February 11th, 2011

Are we 100% sure that MRCA doesnt send any info to the DMV?

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Reord Pissed | February 13th, 2011

Oh, brother….Reading other posts here brings the voice of the Simpsons Comic Store Guy into my head.

[Reply]
Comment by rippedoffhiker | February 13th, 2011

According to what I saw on KCBS last week, it’s not a legal ticket unless there is a notice to appear on the citation. I don’t remember seeing this on mine!

[Reply]
John Reply:
February 16th, 2011 at 5:59 pm
Can you post that kcbs link?

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
February 18th, 2011 at 6:39 am
That is generally for a red light camera ticket given under the vehicle code. The MRCA cites under an administrative citation which operates under a whole different set of rules (which is one reason why they aren’t authorized to do what they are doing). You don’t go to a real court until you lose at the administrative hearing and then pay extra for a new trial in Superior Court.

[Reply]
Comment by Tim | February 18th, 2011

I hate people making up their own laws and try to make money off others. It’s just a freaking parking lot with nobody walking around for God’s sake, I paid a lot for parking and now this stupid fine! Go to hell MRCA!

[Reply]
Comment by bunny | February 18th, 2011

I got a ticket in January and thus far have not payed it. I do believe there is no way to get out of paying this ticket. I put in for financial hardship and asked to pay off the ticket…DENIED!!! I was going to ignore the whole think but after reading that they put a lean on your house I don’t think it’s worth the trouble. I would love to go to court and do community service but that doesn’t seem to be an option all they want is your money. I was thinking to pay them half and then half the next month but they will probably add on a fee for late charges. The whole thing is very sad yes I was wrong but the fees are rediculas. It is surly a case of very desperate times so we all become the city and State’s victums.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
February 19th, 2011 at 2:21 am
Bunny – I have no idea what you mean about putting a lean on your house. Whatever gave you the notion that they have any power to do that. The worst that happens if you ignore it is they send it to a collections agency. Most people report that after they dispute the claim with the collection agency then they never hear another thing about it again.

[Reply]
bunny Reply:
February 19th, 2011 at 7:57 am
Hi Freedomminute,
Thank you for staying in touch with the web site. I read comment 173 Tom Henderson who states that when he went to refi his house the Bank asked him to explain collections account for $261 with Alliance One. I guess I miss understood it and read it as them putting a lean on his property. I have been very upset and really don’t know what to do. I don’t want a collection agency coming after me. I am happy to go to court and do community service but after I post $175 I am sure that the only interest the court has is to keep the money. Even having it reduced to something that is reasonable will work. Although at the stop sign it clearly says PHOTO the camera is place behind the driver to the right, I believe, not to attract extra attention. There never seems to be a picture of the driver at Temesco Canyon Istop sign because of the placement of the camera. I thought we are suppose to be innocent until proven guilty, I guess it doesn’t count for stop signs. We have to prove ourself innocent or give up the persons name who was driving, they surly can’t prove who was driving the car with no picture. I surly don’t know how to fight it, make my fee reasonable most of us are going through difficult times.
Thank you

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
February 19th, 2011 at 2:55 pm
Bunny – First thing: Don’t stress out. We are happy to help you as much as possible. Although we can’t give legal advice, there is a great deal of information here on this site and others that can give you the info you need to make an informed decision.

From your posts, I do suspect that you haven’t had the chance to read through all the posts and comments on this subject. That’s understandable since there’s a few hundred comments on this post alone. Rather than duplicate what’s already been posted, I’d ask that if you haven’t already, read the post on the FAQ’s about the MRCA stop sign cameras and the one about hiring an attorney and read all the comments on those posts and this one if you can. At that point if you have specific questions that haven’t been covered already or that you need clarification on, then post them here and we’ll be happy to answer them to the best of our ability. All the best.

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Reord Pissed | February 20th, 2011

It’s time again…..See the other posts for specifics.
SMMC meeting notice and agenda on Monday, February 28, 2011.
Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy
Ramirez Canyon Park, Malibu
(310) 589-3200, ext. 118
yeramian@smmc.ca.gov
boardsec@smmc.ca.gov

[Reply]
Comment by CJ | March 1st, 2011

Hello All,

I corresponded with Freedom Minute after receiving my first notice from RSI Enterprises trying to collect from me. I did send a letter requesting debt validation. I just received this response from them and am wondering what my next step should be. Any and all help would be appreciated!! Thanks so much to everyone!

Their response:

We are in receipt of your request for validation of the debt. In compliance with Section 809 of the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act (FDCPA), RSI provides below the name and address of the original creditor(s).

Redflex has been contracted by Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority, which is federal land and governed by its own ordinances.

As records of your citation are not available to a third party, it is important that you contact Redflex in order to obtain proper validation. Should you feel that you are not responsible for the citation, you will need to contact Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority and request an administrative hearing.

Below is a website address where you may review such ordinance, starting in Chapter 4.
http://www.mrca.ca.gov/MRCA_Ordinance?5-12-10.pdf

Chapter 4.2.3 and Chapter 6.3 detail the right for an administrative appeal and the process in which to request an administrative hearing.

We look forward to working with you to resolve this matter.

Redflex Traffic Systems, Inc.
23751 N. 23rd Ave, Ste 150
Phoenix, Arizona 85085-1854
Tel: (877) 847-2338

Mountains Recreation & Conservation Authority
570 West Avenue 26, Suite 100
Los Angeles, CA 90065
Tel: (323) 221-9944
Fax: (323) 221-9934
http://www.mrca.ca.gov

Sincerely,
RSI Enterprises, Inc.
(877)886-2765 toll-free
(602) 263-4012 Fax

PO Box 16190, Phoenix, AZ 85011

Advice? Thanks!

[Reply]
rippedoffhiker Reply:
March 1st, 2011 at 12:15 pm
If you don’t pay they will garnish your wages and place a lien on your property. Your credit is now shot for 8 years. Sad but true. The government can do whatever it wants, like it or not! It won’t go away just because it’s unfair and a total rip-off.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
March 3rd, 2011 at 2:21 am
This is totally untrue. I’d like to know why you are posting this misinformation.

[Reply]
rippedoffhiker Reply:
March 3rd, 2011 at 8:25 am
Okay, what does happen if you don’t pay it??

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
March 3rd, 2011 at 9:06 am
From everything that has been posted here by people who have refused to pay, it appears that nothing happens. It does get sent to a collection agency, but doesn’t get sent to the credit reporting agencies so your credit would likely not be affected. Of course we can’t guarantee that will be the case with everyone, but so far no one has reported that their credit has been affected. As far as garnishing your wages and placing a lien on your property, that can only happen through a court order; they’d have to get a civil judgement against you in an actual court of law, not just their administrative hearing. And again, no one has ever reported this happening.

[Reply]
Barnev Reply:
April 3rd, 2011 at 1:12 am
CJ, the collection agency must be able to provide the consumer proof of debt. RSI did not comply; it provided you contact information of its client; not debt validation. Violation of FDCPA.

RSI has no proof of your debt since the proof is not available to third parties (i.e. RSI).

How can RSI collect your debt if they don’t have proof you owe it?

[Reply]
Comment by bunny | March 1st, 2011

I just want to share with everyone what I have done so far with my ticket. After ranting and raving all over the place and finding this web site I realize I was in a boat with many other unlucky people. I did make an attempt to ask for a reduction on the ticket by downloading a paper off of Mountain Recreation and Conservation web site. I sent it in and was denied. I have since then posted bail and asked for a hearing. Even though there was no picture of a person on the vido I would never incriminate anyone else. I heard on a talk radio station it was illegal for the courts to ask to ask for this information I am not hiring a lawyer and the court have heard everything. My money situation is not the greatest at the moment so I am going to ask to do community service or a reduction in the fine. I do feel this will fall on deaf ears but I will try. At the moment I do volunteer work so it wouldn’t be such a bad thing for me to give back to the homeless. I will keep in touch so everyone knows the outcome.

[Reply]
Comment by PS | March 3rd, 2011

Hi everyone, I’m the one that received 7 tickets (2 a day) at the temescal canyon site. Ok so let me update you guys on my info in case you guys are curious. I sent in a hardship waiver without any payment. They sent me an increase on each of my tickets. Then they sent me a letter to set up a hearing date for each of the tickets. I never responded and Diana from MRCA called me because she wanted to know if I wanted to set up a payment plan or go to the hearing. I never called her back. I can’t afford $2,000 specially for something that is a scam. So I just ignored it, a litle too late ( I think). I spoke to a credit collection agency and asked if a company can try to collect a debt without your social security number and he said “yes, some collection companies can”. I told him the situation and since I know this guy he told me If you don’t respond at all, and if the collection agency reports it to credit bureaus, you can fight it. But if you respond then it shows you are aware of it, and acknowledge it. If I knew this information before I would of ignored it from the start. My tickets were issued in August and I don’t know if it has affected my credit yet. I’m afraid to check but I chose to affect my credit over paying something I don’t agree with.

[Reply]
Comment by rippedoffhiker | March 3rd, 2011

John from the Westside

Don’t pay the fines for the ones in the Santa Monica Mountains Parks! They are illegal and they rely on intimidating you into paying them! They tell you they will not go on your driving record (they can’t because they are illegal!), but they try to convince you that if you don’t pay it will go against your credit report. WRONG! They cannot use a credit report for this as you did not agree to pay it (unlike other credit obligations).
I got one of these, they tried this BS on me and I refused to pay and despite their dire warnings about my credit record they have never DARED to try it (I’d take them and the credit agencies to court if they did).
DON’T LET THEM BULLY YOU INTO PAYING!!!!

October 2, 2010 at 2:19 pm | Reply | Report comment

jackie

I was an loan underwriter, I beg to differ. Years ago I saw the city of San Diego report parking tickets, and fines from the public library on one persons credit report. I probably reviewed thousands of FNMA credit reports and this type of collection only came up one time but on the same borrower so I never forgot how crazy it was to read the credit explanation letter about the collections and I had to condition for proof they were paid before we approved the loan.

Many types of judgments, liens, civil payments are reported to the CR but not all credit reports will list them. I always had to verbally pass the account info along because FNMA CR are not supposed to be circulated outside of the company who orders it.

[Reply]
Comment by Ben | March 3rd, 2011

I was sent one of these fake tickets 15 months ago. I’ve ignored it. Nothing has gone on my credit report. If you get something from these crooks, then write “return to sender” or “go pound sand down a rat hole”. It would be great if we could get people to picket the park.

[Reply]
Comment by Stacy | March 8th, 2011

Received my first collection letter today from RSI. My credit has ALWAYS been stellar, so I’m a little nervous about ignoring the letter. I am in complete agreement that this is a scam, but having received this letter I’m slightly more concerned. Do I respond to RSI in any way, shape or form, and if so how? THANKS!

[Reply]
rippedoffhiker Reply:
March 8th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
It never ceases to amaze me that just because people don’t like an unjust ticket, it can just be ignored. It’s not a scam if the govenment does it. The state needs money and will go to any absurd length to extract it from it’s citizens.

[Reply]
Howard Reply:
March 8th, 2011 at 1:26 pm
The ticket is not only unjust, but many find that it is illegal for a number of reasons, probably varying by each camera’s location and provided signage.

Sorry, but just because the government does it does not make it legal.

First of all, MRCA is not a law-making body and they are only a quasi-governmental organization to begin with; they claim they can set their own laws because it is their land, which is arguable and doesn’t negate the need for signage and following under the law.

Second, any local jurisdiction must still follow state law, and the vehicle code is pretty specific on where cameras are involved, what proof of violation is required, what signage is required for stops, etc.

And third, just because the government says something doesn’t mean that there isn’t also supposed to be due process for the accused; MRCA provides no means for objective judgement of its tickets.

[Reply]
rippedoffhiker Reply:
March 8th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
Anybody beat this ticket??

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
March 8th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
If by “beat” you mean have the MRCA drop the case after it has been challenged in court, then yes. See Allan Baylis’ comment under number 8 in the comments of this post http://www.freedomminute.com/blog/state-government/hire-an-attorney-to-fight-your-mrca-ticket/

[Reply]
AJ Reply:
March 27th, 2011 at 9:13 pm
Hello Freedomminute,

Thanks for all the information you have provided on this scam. I too, have just received a ticket notice from MRCA for a stop sign violation. The difference here is that I really wasn’t the person driving the vehicle at Temescal Park (honestly). The car is mine but it was being borrowed. To your knowledge, has anyone been able to have their ticket dismissed based on this excuse? Obviously, if I evidence that I was somewhere else at the time (receipt of some sort) it would help but I am retired. So I was probably at home.

[Reply]
Comment by Tim | March 8th, 2011

I should put up a camera and a stop sign at my warehouse parking lot and make it work for my retirement.

[Reply]
Comment by bunny | March 8th, 2011

I don’t believe that this ticket should be ignored. Is it a “Cash Cow” for the State of course but by ignoring it doesn’t make it right. I have never tried to get anything off my credit report but it must be more trouble then going to court. In my neighborhood we use to angle park then they started to give us tickets. We had a letter telling us it was ok to angle park dated about 10 years ago. We started to go to court and won our case taking the courts time. As a result they ticketed us on a daily basic. End of the story we now park against the curb. End of the Photo Enforcement story when there is a stop sign we as drives must stop even if it is in the middle of no where. We either hire a lawyer to help us fight it, pay it or go to court on our own. Ignoring it leaves us all open for other problems. I’m not happy either. Just thought I would voice my opinion.

[Reply]
MurphysLaw Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 12:56 pm
Outsourced and unemployed after 23 Years, sadly, I CAN’T afford to pay it…and I DID stop, but not long enough or at the RIGHT PLACE, apparently.

That amount i$ $till not right, and a true indication of what it’$ really about.

[Reply]
Comment by Ben | March 8th, 2011

Observations: 1. These are not bona fide tickets; 2. The MRCA is not “the state”; 3. Last I checked, the government is by the people and for the people: it is your right to fight it however you may choose to do so: e.g., ignore it. 4. If you don’t pay, nothing will happen to you. The MRCA has a scam going on here and they know it. If they push too hard, they will ruin what they consider a good thing. Imagine: MRCA is forced to file bankruptcy due to a large class action settlement???? 5. Are MRCA financial statements available to they public under the Freedom of Information Act? It would be interesting to see where the money goes…Is this another City of Bell? We all know the arrogance is there. 6. Why was the MRCA’s last board meeting (Feb 4) cancelled and what goes on during the “closed session”? 7. Bring back the Temescal pool and charge for it’s use and get rid of the cameras 8. The Carlyle Group is buying Redflex http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/21/redflex-carlyle-idUSTOE71K02A20110221 The Carlyle Group probably would hate the bad press around this situation.

[Reply]
Comment by MurphysLaw | March 11th, 2011

Ahhh…I started reading at the beginning of this thread, and now jump to the end…Is there NO END in sight?

Not going THERE for ANY REASON anymore.

TemescalBoycott…

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Reord Pissed | March 15th, 2011

This forum has attracted NOW it’s share of sickies, stalkers, haters, trolls, and bad comedy posters…unless the AdMs start to moderate this site to remove them this area will be taken over by the trolls and this site will lose it importance, effectiveness, and helpfulnes.

[Reply]
rippedoffhiker Reply:
March 15th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
Your comment from August 19, 2010:

I want to make them work for their $175 admission fee to visit their park and I might be up for some guerilla tactics to cause some nuisance to the park of staff there.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
March 15th, 2011 at 2:23 pm
What comments do you think are so bad as to make this site lose its “importance, effectiveness, and helpfulness”? Do you want me to judge every single post and decide how useful it is? Better, when an incorrect or unhelpful post appears, the community can just correct it. That can actually be more helpful than removing the post. The policy here is not to police everything that gets posted. The basic rules that I have imposed are that posters conduct themselves with courtesy and not engage in personal attacks. I’m only going to remove posts that are obviously abusive, spam, trolling or off topic. I haven’t seen many posts, if any, that warrant removal. If there is something in particular that you think needs my attention, please feel free to contact me and let me know. Thanks for being part of the discussion.

[Reply]
Comment by Ervin | March 18th, 2011

I am sorry, I am still confused. Has anyone actually been given a ticket when they legitimately stopped at the stop sign?

[Reply]
Howard Reply:
March 18th, 2011 at 12:44 pm
The fact that you are here means one of two things:
a) you got a ticket that you feel is unfair, or
b) you are with the MRCA to stir trouble.

Your confusion would seem to point to your being in the latter category of site visitor.

Just because someone did not come to a 100% stop at a stop sign in the middle of nowhere does not mean the ticket was legal. There are laws in place to protect citizens from unjust prosecution and at least some of these stop sign cameras violate those protections.

[Reply]
Ervin Reply:
March 18th, 2011 at 1:32 pm
Actually neither, but close. My father got a parking ticket that was unfair, and I was googling on how to fight tickets, and was led me to this site. I live near MCRA, and am not sure I would want to drive there given the info on this site. One time when I walked to an MCRA park, I thought it was odd that some people would wait five to 10 seconds at the stop sign, and others would run around the stop sign by driving on the left side of the street. Now I know why. By the way the parking ticket was successfully overturned, and it was not an MCRA ticket.

[Reply]
Comment by Chris | March 20th, 2011

here is a form letter documenting an attempt to get MRCA to dismiss your citation on legal grounds. I’m about to send mine off, and will report what happens. This may be apropriate for small claims court, where a party that doesn’t respond to attempts at negotiation usually gets a strike against them with the judge. Send it registered and certified mail. This is not legal counsel.

[Date]

To:
Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority (MRCA)
Attn: Photo Enforcement Program Administrator
P.O. Box 230
North Hollywood, CA 91603

From:
(your address here)

To Whom It May Concern:

I am in receipt of an Administrative Citation from MRCA, notice number _______, dated ______.

I respectfully request dismissal of this citation, on the grounds that the face of the driver of the vehicle is not visible in the copies of the evidence provided, and on other legal grounds which can be argued in a court of law. I also respectfully disagree with the MRCA’s decision and authority to enforce traffic violations codified under California Vehicle Code, by use of administrative citations, effectively exceeding MRCA’s jurisdiction and authority.

If MRCA does not respond within 10 (ten) business days, I will assume MRCA declines to dismiss the citation and will submit the fine to a collection agency, as stated in the citation and instruction documents it sent me. In this scenario, it will be my intention to seek legal remedy in the appropriate California state court.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Regards,

[Reply]
Eli Reply:
March 21st, 2011 at 1:34 am
Notifying the MRCA that you received and understood their letter probably isn’t a very good idea. And what would you be suing for in Small Claims? To drop the ticket? If you’re going to take that tack, better to just ignore it, I think.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
March 21st, 2011 at 8:46 pm
I’m going to bet that they will tell you to come to the hearing and fight it (and pay them first). And their ordinance doesn’t require that the driver be identified so your reference to that is likely to fall on deaf ears.

[Reply]
Comment by Chris | March 21st, 2011

I notified the MRCA to document my attempt to settle the claim out of court, which small claims judges appreciate and admonish all petitioners to do. Yes, suing in small claims will be to drop the ticket, which is an alleged $175 civil claims balance which will be referred to collection and ultimately affect my credit rating. It’s one way to challenge the MRCA’s authority in court, if only a gadfly kind of way. If more ticket recipients did this, how much would it cost MRCA to send someone to small claims for all the tickets it issues? Maybe an attorney would be kind enough to give an opinion here.

I don’t claim to be a legal strategist, just a citizen responding in the best way I know how.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
March 21st, 2011 at 8:43 pm
I appreciate your fighting spirit, but I’m doubtful you will get very far with Small Claims Court. You could use that if you already paid and wanted to try to get your money back because Small Claims is only for monetary disputes. The judge there won’t order anyone to do anything other than awarding a monetary judgement.

I have to agree with Eli that it might not be best to notify the MRCA that you received their citation and notices. We still don’t exactly know why these don’t get sent to the credit reporting agencies and show up on your credit report, but I’d be careful of giving them any extra evidence against you such as that you were given fair notice of the citation. Not sure if that would matter at all, but I might not chance it.

[Reply]
Comment by MurphysLaw | March 22nd, 2011

Well, it seems that I’ve come to MY conclusion….Citation?…WHAT notice? I DON’T want something to haunt me on my already suffering credit report.
I would still be interested in knowing the status of all legal strategies and if the Media is still interested in our…errrr…YOUR issues! I would be interested in attending any meetings on this…For educational reasons, obviously

[Reply]
Comment by Tom Henderson | March 22nd, 2011

Well, I got my gift last June. Here is what has happened so far:

1. Got the ticket/photo/notice from MCRA
(I ignored it)

2. In November, I get another note from the MCRA, this time requesting $192 (the orig $175 + 10%)
(Again, I ignored it)

3. January 2011 I get a note from RSI collection, representing Redflex, requesting now $240.
(Again, I ignored it. Nothing reported to the credit bureaus yet.)

Personally, I kinda think teh worst thing you can do is open an avenue of communication with them or their goons like RSI or redflex. I think that if they get too agressive re attempting to collect, then their cash cow will get exposed big time anb thereby jeopardize it. IMHO.

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Reord Pissed | March 22nd, 2011

TO quash or quell those victims worrying obcessently about their credit report being victimized by the MCRA and their trolls, here is the official US govt website explaining your rights against the trolls that wish to tarnish your credit reports over such ‘questionable’ matters. The federal Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) protects you. You must do the reading at internet LINK: http://www.ftc.gov/credit or write to Consumer Response Center, Room 130-A Federal Trade Commission 600 Pennsyvania Ave, N.W. Washington D.C. 20580

You may have MORE rights under Stae Law: contact your state or local consumer protection agency or your state Attorney General.

You have the right to:

*Know what’s in your file.
*Know what information has been used against you.
*Know your credit score.
*Dispute incomplete or inaccurate information.
*Require of consumer reporting agencies must correct or delete inaccurate, incomplete, or unverifiable information.
*Require of consumer agencies may not report outdated negative information.
*Seek damages from violators.

[Reply]
Comment by Nick | March 22nd, 2011

I figure I’ll give my experience…

I received the “ticket” back around August of last year. I went to the website, viewed the video, and sure enough, it show my car from the rear rolling through a stop sign as my car exits a parking lot off Topanga Canyon. I actually know for a fact it was my ex-gf driving the car at the time, but I digress…

I got pissed off, did some research, saw it wasn’t a legitimate ticket, and ignored it.

A month or so later I received a second notice, and so I ignored that one as well.

Another month or so goes by and I received a collection notice. Then I found this place and I ignored the collection notice.

I received a second notice from RSI collections. It says:

“We have not received your payment in full. The amount owing above is now due and payable.

Please remit full payment so that we may discontinue our collection efforts on this amount owing and consider the matter resolved. Pay the debt today and it will be shown as a paid item in our lien files.”

That’s pretty much it. The back of it has some standard info and disclaimers for various states…In my case, California says this:

(here is a snippet from the most significant part relating to credit)

“As required by law, you are hereby notified that a negative
credit report reflecting on your credit record may be submitted to a credit reporting agency if you fail to fulfill the terms of your credit obligations. We will not submit a negative credit report to a credit reporting agency about this credit obligation until the expiration of the time period described in the notice on the front of this letter.”

Ok, so I scrutinized the front of the letter again…There is no expiration date. In fact, other than the date it was mailed, there are no other dates at all.

For what it is worth, I had to pull my credit report last week and it is spotless. I received this second notice over a month ago. Perhaps it takes a while to show up, but I am not worried, and highly doubtful that I will encounter any issues with my credit in regards to this BS.

[Reply]
Comment by Tim | March 24th, 2011

If I only read this blog before sending $175 to MRCA, since I didn’t not receive the first notice so was confused when they ask me for $192, so I called and they send me a copy of the original citation. The video does look kind of odd, doesn’t seem like how I would drive but I didn’t want to go through the hearing so send the original amount of $175 to them, and now they are asking for $65.63 in late fees. This is just wrong and greed.

[Reply]
Comment by AJ | March 27th, 2011

Hello Freedomminute,

Thanks for all the information you have provided on this scam. I too, have just received a ticket notice from MRCA for a stop sign violation. The difference here is that I really wasn’t the person driving the vehicle at Temescal Park (honestly). The car is mine but it was being borrowed ( i know who it was but don’t want to tell MRCA). To your knowledge, has anyone been able to have their ticket dismissed based on this excuse? Obviously, if I have evidence that I was somewhere else at the time (receipt of some sort) it would help, but I am retired so I was probably at home. Thanks again.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
March 27th, 2011 at 11:39 pm
These are the relevant parts of the ordinance you are being charged with violating.

§ 4.0. Traffic control. (a) No person shall drive any vehicle, as defined in the California Vehicle Code, upon any MRCA owned or managed parkland, roadway or parking areas except upon, and subject to, any posted traffic control signs and/or pavement markings. Traffic control signs include, but are not limited to, stop signs, speed limit signs, directional signs, turning signs, road closure signs, road hours of operation sign, commercial truck restrictions, and signs limiting vehicle use on trails.

(b) No currently registered owner of a motor vehicle shall allow or permit his or her vehicle to be operated in violation of §4.0(a).

As you can see, section (a) makes it a violation to drive a vehicle in violation of any of their traffic signs; in this case, a stop sign. Section (b) makes it a violation to permit your vehicle to be driven in such manner. If you loaned your vehicle to someone, they will claim you are responsible for the other person’s actions and you are guilty.

The only defense their ordinance provides to this is if the vehicle or license plates were stolen or that the vehicle was operated without your consent.

You would have to prove to their satisfaction that you did not consent to the use of your vehicle. I have no idea how one would do that other than naming the person who was driving and prove they didn’t have permission.

Personally, I think this is a losing proposition. And no, I’m not aware of anyone who was successful with such a defense. Remember the deck is stacked against you and they can arbitrarily decide the rules.

If you want to fight it, there are better arguments, but it will be a lot of time and effort and you will have to pay them first for the privilege of attending their kangaroo court.

If you haven’t already, you should read the rest of the comments and consider taking the advice of those who ignored the citation and nothing happened. But as the owner of the blog I can’t give legal advice as I’m not an attorney.

[Reply]
Comment by rippedoffhiker | March 28th, 2011

The next step:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110327/ap_on_re_us/us_speed_camera_spat

[Reply]
Comment by Ben | March 28th, 2011

All:
The following link details the status of two class action lawsuits against the MRCA: http://www.highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamsLawClassActMRCA.html. See the .pdf files attached to the link. The legal complaints provide a good case as to why our rights are being violated. My only fear is that the MRCA will try to settle these to avoid paying back everyone the illegal civil fines that they have attempted to levy.

If anyone is considering paying the fine even after reading the blog (nothing will happen to you or your credit report), then you should read the complaints. The MRCA are the true criminals…

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Reord Pissed | April 4th, 2011

There is so much good informational Facts posted here by helpful members for people to read themselves and make you’re own decision. It’s like life, some will be caught in scams like ‘sheep’ and others will be smarter and won’t. I don’t continbute to obvious scammers working on illegal matters.

[Reply]
Comment by freedomminute | April 4th, 2011

Hey folks,

Check out my new website devoted to ending the City of LA’s photo red light program. http://saferstreetsla.org/
We need you to go there, click on the TAKE ACTION link in the box towards the top of the page and send an email. I’ve made it super simple, you just have to enter your info and hit send. The LAPD will be asking the Police Commission for an extension of the current contract. It’s entirely possible they might vote “no”. Read this story about my efforts and how I’ve got them on the ropes, http://www.dailynews.com/breakingnews/ci_17755195

And tell your friends!

[Reply]
lei Reply:
April 5th, 2011 at 8:38 am
Awesome! Just read your article, which was excellent, and sent my email. Thank you so much!

[Reply]
john Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 2:19 pm
That’s great, but we’re talking about the mrca lights. How can we put a stop to those? Who are the civic leaders we need to contact to get them to go after mrca?

Also, I received my 2nd letter from mrca with the late fee attached. It was weird because there was a great delay in receiving it, which made me think they were backing off because of an impending class-action lawsuit (what’s the story on that?)There was a line in there about civil action possibly being taken to enforce the fine. I don’t think anyone on this thread has mentioned that. How do you interpret that language? Is that just another scare tactic, referring to the typical way a fine would be enforced?

How long after the fine increase do you get called by a collections agency and what is the legal argument to use to get them to back off?

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 9:49 pm
John,

Thanks for your contribution, but as the creator and owner of this blog, I get to decide which comments are on topic.

[Reply]
Comment by Bunny | April 4th, 2011

I just went to the web site to sign petition and it was very simple and only took a few minutes. I urge everyone to do the same.

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Reord Pissed | April 5th, 2011

Can we stay ON POINT ??…..
I am against MRCA red light cameras and phony ticketing because it’s not legal, ON MANY LEVELS.
I am not interested in ‘ALL City of LA’s photo red lights’ system.
It’s ‘apples and oranges’ and gets us OFF POINT.

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
April 6th, 2011 at 9:36 pm
See, the great thing about creating and owning your own blog is that you get to post what you want, when you want, where you want. And you get to decide which comments are on topic and which ones aren’t. And by definition, all my posts and comments are on topic and so are the ones directly in response to me.

[Reply]
Clean Reord Pissed Reply:
April 7th, 2011 at 8:18 am
Here’s a direct response to you, Freedomminute then.

I have been a political activist and campiage manager and worker since I got to vote in the late 60′s as an 18 yr old. I have been in many campaign issues and election campaigns. Politically savy and smart people know that successfull issues campaign llike this one MUST STAY ON POINT and don’t get OFF POINT about other secondary matters.
I was wondering when you would pull rank on posters here. You must lead, not vasilate on othewr secondary issues. I know this is your ‘sand-box’ and you hold the controls; but if you really wish to do some good, you will learn how to put into action by local activision to make your issues more publicly known and felt by the unknowing public. That is how change is done. There was talk about several people picketing or passing out flyers at these parks and you did nothing about that offer. To only rely on the courts for justice and change is a mistake. It takes the media, political contacts and more. I see very little of that orchestrated by you here. Congrats on that small accomplishment!
IMHO: This had become a place for internet debate and questionable action.

[Reply]
Comment by rippedoffhiker | April 7th, 2011

I tried flagging down drivers at the top of Reseda to warn them, but most seemed uninterested and drove right through the stop sign anyway. By the way, as an activist, you should know that 18 year olds were not granted the right to vote until 1971, as expressed in the 26th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution!

[Reply]
Clean Record Pissed Reply:
April 8th, 2011 at 8:16 am
Rippedofhiker: Thanks for your person-toperson local activision. I salute you. Glad to see someone IS doing something as I suggested all those many posts agao. Your knowledge is immense on the first 18 yr olds to vote. Yes, that was my first (and certainly not the last election) public issue cause I am involved in. I am still active today, as I mentioned. But that was a LONG time ago, and several wars ago for for me to remember the exact day and time. You win an Internet cookie. Now what about back to the Topic, thanks.

[Reply]
Comment by john | April 7th, 2011

I am surprised nobody has taken any action against this scam other than the last poster (thank you for your efforts). And I’m still hoping someone can tell me who I need to contact to go after mrca.

[Reply]
Clean Record Pissed Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 7:53 am
John, The information you seek has been researched and posted on this threa discussion. It does take time to read the facts and to be educated on this scam and how to avoid it. It does take YOUR effort.
BYW: the MRCA is meeting again in Thousand Oaks CA. There is an open ‘public’ comments section during the meeting where you can voice your views to them. Just look up my past postings on that topic here and get the facts. This suggestion goes for any other interested. This site will not do your work for you.

[Reply]
Comment by Anonymous | April 11th, 2011

I still need to know how long after the fine increase can I expect to be called by a collections agency. Also, what does the “civil action” mean?

[Reply]
rippedoffhiker Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 7:00 am
Anytime after 60 days.

Check this out:

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/rebuild/debt_validation.shtml

Noun 1. civil action – legal action to protect a private civil right or to compel a civil remedy (as distinguished from criminal prosecution)
action at law, legal action, action – a judicial proceeding brought by one party against another; one party prosecutes another for a wrong done or for protection of a right or for prevention of a wrong

[Reply]
john Reply:
April 13th, 2011 at 11:27 am
Thanks for the link. But according to it and according to a previous poster a collections agency can come after you if you agreed to pay an amount and then didn’t follow through- such as putting something on a credit card and then not paying for it. That’s not the situation here. We never made any agreement with mrca that we would pay them anything. Am I missing information here?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
April 14th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
I am not going to pay. Let them send the collections agency. I have not heard of one person yet who said this appeared on their credit report as a negative mark.

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record Pissed | April 15th, 2011

Santa Monica Moutain Conservancy: meeting agenda for 4/25/11.
The meeting notice and agenda for the Conservancy meeting on April 25, 2011.

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record Pissed | April 29th, 2011

In Thousand Oaks, CA….NEED specifics? See my previous postings on this topic. The MRCA meeting on Wednesday, May 4, 2011.
You can speak in the ‘public comment’ of the meeting and voice your opposition.
**PS…do to the total lack of any participation in this event and my listing here, I will discontinue this gtopic posting.
I see this is a clear example of this….
3 types of people.
People who make things happen,
People who watch things happen and
People who wonder “What Happened?

[Reply]
Comment by Will | May 6th, 2011

Can someone layout an overall time line of events.
For Example: Day 0 – Run Stop Sign. Day 60 receive 1st ticket. Day 120 receive 1st correspondence from Collection Agency (is RSI the only collection agency working on this)?

Once I receive the collection agency notice – Do you recommend/is the consensus to NOT reply at all? Or to reply with a legal reason as to why you should not pay?

[Reply]
Comment by Tom Henderson | May 6th, 2011

Will, your ques has been ans more than a few times. Best thing to do is just shitcan any and all correspondence from the MCRA. If you scare easily or want to wimp out, then pay it immed.

[Reply]
Comment by chuck | May 7th, 2011

I was in the park at the top of Reseda last Thursday and noticed that the stop sign has been removed and the pavement sign has also been covered.

[Reply]
Comment by Tom Henderson | May 8th, 2011

Lest anyone think that the MCRA & its “owner” Edminston are about anything other than $$, read this article: http://www.dailynews.com/columnists/ci_17965742

It kinda explains how a “civil servant” park ranger, Joe Edministon, can live high on the hog, in a palatial Pacific Palisades compound, overlooking the Pacific, on the meager salary of a head park ranger.
Its all about the money. Always has and always will be.

I remain convinced that his bogus stop sign tix enterprise is a total scam and sham. I gotta think that this generates a lot of untraceable revenue, that can be shared with elected officials that support his public extortion game.

I still havent even responded to my ticket from last June, and nothing has happened as a result.

PLEASE DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON THIS SCAM, AS YOU WILL ONLY HELP PERPETUATE THE SCAM.

[Reply]
1entrapment1 Reply:
May 12th, 2011 at 9:56 am
I think you are mislead by the article. I checked into the state sanctioned salaries (as can you), and it seems Joe Edminston (Santa Monica Conservancy) makes no more than 90K a year, and is furloughed as well. That would be a meager salary after 32 years of service IMHO.
I think this palace ownership is from other enterprises away from his involvement as a park ranger, perhaps you agree?..

[Reply]
Comment by Kevin | May 12th, 2011

Has anybody out there decided not to pay and ignore all correspondence and eventually found it on there credit reports?

[Reply]
Tom Henderson Reply:
May 12th, 2011 at 4:17 pm
I think NO. He is a crook. What you find may be just the “Above the table” stuff. His agency gets a lot of small cash flow. He lets the contracts for MCRA works. Gee, do you think the “winning bidders” show him any financial consideration?? Like “campaign contributions”? (And, yes, I realize he is appointed and not elected.)

[Reply]
Tom Henderson Reply:
May 12th, 2011 at 4:17 pm
Yes, I have ignored all since lase June, and nothin has happened.

[Reply]
Clean Record Pissed Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 9:02 am
Same here, I got my credit report…..all green and good. Nothing there. THIS IS A SCAM.

[Reply]
Kevin Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 9:51 am
Thank you………….How long since your ticket?

[Reply]
Clean Record Pissed Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 12:07 pm
it that question to me ? over a year ago.

[Reply]
Comment by Andrew | May 23rd, 2011

Has anyone had any luck fighting these tickets legally? Any updates on the potential class action suit? I got a bogus $175 ticket for a stop sign in Temescal Canyon.

[Reply]
Justin Reply:
May 30th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
You can click on the provided link located at highwayrobbery.net to obtain the latest info. There are two separate lawsuits and MCRA is on their way to losing both if these latest rulings are an indication of future rulings.

http://www.highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamsLawClassActMRCA.html

As far as your ticket is concerned, ignore it. These tickets are not binding and do not have the backing of any court. They use a collection agency based in Ohio to send threatening letters. But they do not have any power.

[Reply]
Comment by Tom Henderson | May 30th, 2011

I was at the top of Reseda yesterday, 05/29/2011 and the stop sign was indeed gone. Also, looks like they tried to sandblast the ‘STOP’ letters and limit line off the pavement.
A week ago, I went past the top of Topanga, and the camera was still in place, but Im not sure either way about the stop sign at that location. ‘

Its lookin like Sheriff Joe Edmitson’s money generating scheme is grinding to a halt. He may be just trying to undo the whole program quietly and slowly, so as not to draw attention to the MCRA. I gotta think he fears a retro court order that mandates giving refunds to all past contributors.

Imagine this scenario: A lot of the mandatory record keeping of those that have paid the $175, has been “lost” (because a lot of the fine $$ is being skimmed or pocketed). And Joe is under a court order to make full restitution. He would be in a mess. Especially if he has shared the proceeds, quietly under the table, with other officials, elected or other.

[Reply]
Justin Reply:
May 31st, 2011 at 8:48 am
It’s nice to see that justice will inevitably prevail. And after the collapse of the MCRA, the entire red light camera industry will most certainly follow. It’s all about money and they don’t care how they get it.

[Reply]
Worried Reply:
July 4th, 2011 at 10:52 am
Tom, if someone I know went through this area in July 2011 is there any possibility of receiving a ticket… this person knew that there wasn’t a stop sign up there when they passed through but got scared when they saw the camera in their rear-view.

[Reply]
Comment by Tom Henderson | May 31st, 2011

If you ever had any doubts on what a scumbag Joe Edminston and the MCRA is, then read todays offering from the daily news:

http://www.dailynews.com/columnists/ci_18176925

The MCRA czar is an outright money grabbing whore. The MCRA is his weapon of choice. Thanks to Moonbeam for appointing him in the first place. Brown is in bed w/Edminston, no doubt.

Point being: Anyone who sends the MCRA their $175 award stemming from a illegal stop sign ticket is an outright fool!

[Reply]
Comment by Laura | June 2nd, 2011

I got a ticket in March from a rolling stop done in February, when I was on vacation in Santa Monica, driving a rental car. I found this website and ignored the ticket, due on April 27th. So far I have not received a past due notice.

[Reply]
Comment by Laura | June 5th, 2011

Got my “default notice” yesterday. It sounds very threatening but I noticed some interesting verbiage. The letter states that my failure to respond “may constitute a waiver of your right to contest the violation.” It “may” constitute. They have added a penalty of $17.50 and nonpayment “could result in a civil court action against you.” “This civil action could be enforced as a debt…imposed under (MRCA ordinance).” “Immediate payment of $192.50 is necessary to prevent potential civil proceedings…” The words “may,” “could result,” “could be enforced,” “potential civil proceedings,” all imply actions but don’t definitively state the actions and violations, except to state it’s MRCA’s statutes and ordinances. When I got the first notice and viewed the film my first thought was that you can’t see who’s driving and that can’t be legal. I did some internet searching and found this site/blog. I will ignore this second notice as my research and the rulings on the demurrer, handed down in March 2011 for the class action suit, convince me that this is illegal. Thank you for providing this information.

[Reply]
D. Simms Reply:
June 7th, 2011 at 4:01 pm
Dear fellow Citizens wrongfully ticketed by the MRCA:

I paid my $175.00 rip-off “ticket” from the MRCA for a fraudulent stop sign “violation” at Franklin Canyon Park, because I did NOT want ANY possiblility of damaging my good credit rating.

I went to appeal in a “Kangaroo Court” at Franklin Canyon – where my correct legal arguments were disregarded.

I have subsequently filed an appeal in the Van Nuys Superior Court AND contacted wonderful attorney R. Allen Baylis (714) 962-0915. He has SUCCESSFULLY fought these tickets before, and is willing to represent a group of us at a very reduced fee (less than the ticket) and will hopefully get us a REFUND of our $175. or more – if we hire him together as a group. The more Appellants, the better!

IF you want JUSTICE and YOUR MONEY BACK, please contact me, SOON, at: “dsimms@socal.rr.com” and/or Mr. Baylis (tel. # above) – who usually returns calls in the evening. Thank you!

In Unity,
D. Simms

[Reply]
chuck Reply:
June 17th, 2011 at 5:02 pm
My daughter received 2 violations from the camera at the top of Reseda in 2009. At the time I did not have the time to research and fight the tickets. I wonder what led to the removal of that stop sign? From what I could find, that stop sign did not conform to Caltrans standards for a stop sign location. I would be interested in trying to get my money back.
Chuck

[Reply]
Comment by Laura | June 8th, 2011

I live in Minnesota. I’m ignoring the ticket. I’ll take my chances,and according to other posters to this blog I have nothing to be concerned about. It’s terrible how threatening those notices sound and I initially thought I’d have to pay but it didn’t seem legal so I spent hours researching the matter and this website was one of many I found that let me know it’s not legal and the truth has set me free (AND saved me $175 hard earned dollars).

[Reply]
Comment by Neal | June 12th, 2011

Hey folks, never received a past due notice from MRCA as a follow-up to the original citation which I got last October, and now I’ve received the collections agency letter.

However, this one isn’t from a company in Ohio as mentioned above, but one called RSI Enterprises Inc. in Phoenix, AZ.

Has anyone else received a letter from these guys, and is it still okay to ignore? They’re requesting a written dispute within 30 days or they will “assume this debt is valid”/

[Reply]
Ben Reply:
June 12th, 2011 at 2:44 pm
Neal => Ignore it. I threw mine away months ago and nothing has happened.

[Reply]
Tom Henderson Reply:
June 13th, 2011 at 10:45 am
I think an Edmindston relation runs RSI. I got my RSI note about 7 months ago, and nothin else has happened.
The whole thing is a total scam. It is unraveling before Sheriff Edminstons eyes. He has removed the stop sign at the top of Reseda, and tried to sandblast the pavement. I suppose its possible that there was an injunction against the MCRA. I wonder if any of the other 6 signs have been decommissioned?
Wouldnt it be great if the MCRA had to make restitution to all the “victims”, incl interest??? I wonder if the MCRA even has records of all the motorists that they have fleeced over the years.

[Reply]
Larry Reply:
June 23rd, 2011 at 8:23 pm
Guys,

Thanks for all of your responses on your experiences with this disgraceful scam. I thought I’d add my experience thus far: Rec’d ticket in December ’10, read this blog, ignored, received threat and fee went up to $240 in early 2011, ignored, and today received letter from RSI Enterprises. Ignoring that too.

Not planning on paying or responding to any of this, and I will keep this blog updated on what happens. I encourage everyone to do the same!

[Reply]
Laura Reply:
June 13th, 2011 at 6:45 pm
“Assume this debt is valid?” Hmmm, sounds rather dubious. I wonder how that would be interpreted from a legal standpoint. Sounds like they’re trying to bait you into responding as a means of getting you to admit to some wrong doing. I’ll bet RSI Enterprises is an off-shoot of the Redflex camera company that takes the photos, also based in Arizona.

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record Pissed | June 22nd, 2011

R E A D and go to the response links posted here for true enlightenment on this scam.

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record Pissed | July 5th, 2011

I NEVER paid this crock of $hit despite all the ‘bogeyman’ threats from AZ and MI.
Just got my credit report for a home purchase, NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH mentioned about this band of MCRA gangsters stealing from the naive and uninformed.
It’s a confidence scheme by Govt folks.
Please, get wise.

[Reply]
Comment by Anonymous | July 24th, 2011

Great comments! I ignored the first letter, then, after a long delay in which I thought they had forgotten about me, I got the second letter increasing my fine. Ignored that of course, since I have been reading this great blog. After a very long delay, I received the RSI notice. I haven’t been following the comments lately, so could someone please get me caught up?

1) Why were the letters sent to me so far apart (much farther than the deadlines were stated to be for me to pay)?
2) Has the stop sign indeed been removed from the top of Reseda? What about the camera? What does this mean and when did it happen if so?
3) Past posters have written that you should contest only at the point when you are mailed the letter from the collections agency (which appears to be RSI). Now it seems posters are writing that you can ignore this letter too. Should I not respond even though it says to do so within 30 days? Are we changing our tactic? I didn’t see anything in the RSI letter that threatened any action.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
August 7th, 2011 at 12:09 am
Does someone know the answers to my questions?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 3:47 pm
Please reply asap! Where is everyone?

[Reply]
freedomminute Reply:
August 14th, 2011 at 3:10 am
1. I don’t think anyone will be able to answer why there was a delay. Perhaps they were very busy sending out tickets to new victims.
2.Yes it has been removed as well as the cameras. Don’t know the date. It means nothing as far as the tickets they gave out previously. It looks like it was a voluntary action on their part. Perhaps the bad publicity got to them or they simply weren’t generating enough tickets there.
3. No one seems to have a definitive answer. I suggest you scan through the comments and see what worked for others. It may be that either approach will work.

Thanks for visiting.

[Reply]
Tom Henderson Reply:
August 14th, 2011 at 9:03 am
Never respond to any of their bullshit. Thats what I did. Got the ‘gift’ in June of ’10. Never resp to any of their three offerings. Maybe last Nov or so, I got the notice from RSI asking for a donation of $240. I shitcanned that as well. Thats the last Ive heard. I have since (a) renewed the lic on the veh used in the crime; (b) renewed my drivers lic last Dec; (c) looked at my credit report last month. Nothing negative hsa ever happened.

These guys have no more horsepower than the mall cop or a security guard in the neighborhood parking lot.

Ignore all offerings from this MCRA outfit. Its gangster govt gone wild.

[Reply]
Tom Henderson Reply:
August 14th, 2011 at 9:05 am
Never respond to any of their bullshit. Thats what I did. Got the ‘gift’ in June of ’10. Never resp to any of their three offerings. Maybe last Nov or so, I got the notice from RSI asking for a donation of $240. I shitcanned that as well. Thats the last Ive heard. I have since (a) renewed the lic on the veh used in the crime; (b) renewed my drivers lic last Dec; (c) looked at my credit report last month. Nothing negative has ever happened.

These guys have no more horsepower than the mall cop or a security guard in the neighborhood parking lot.

Ignore all offerings from this MCRA outfit. Its gangster govt gone wild.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 9:43 am
Thanks for the tips. I actually called RSI with the phone number they provided in their letter, thinking I could learn more by doing so. It was fishy. First, when they transferred me to their “citations” department, nobody answered. After I hung up, somebody called me right back-unusual. After the person looked up my information, they immediately asked me what my preferred method of payment was. I told them I have no intention of paying. Then all they said was that the issue could go on my credit report and it could keep me from being able to renew the license for my car. Then the person just said “Have a nice day”. I hung up. What else could I do? Obviously they aren’t negotiating. I don’t see the point in writing them a letter. It seems from what other people on this site have written, that contacting RSI is an unnecessary as contacting MRCA. Anyone have similar experiences? Was it wrong for me to contact RSI at all, or it made no difference?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
August 19th, 2011 at 10:59 am
Can I get a response?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
August 23rd, 2011 at 4:50 pm
RSI actually called after this incident on their own and repeated the false claim that an unpaid fine will keep me from registering my car. I am assuming they are making this up. Why do they think they can get away with this? Doesn’t the DMV not recognize MRCA’s tickets?

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
August 30th, 2011 at 11:54 pm
Collection agencies will say ANYTHING to intimidate you to pay!

[Reply]
Comment by Ron | July 26th, 2011

I received a ticket for an unknown driver in ny vehicle, driver unknown, exiting to Sunset Blvd from the Temescal Canyon Exit. The vehicle brake lights are clearly on. The road appears to be empty, and frankly as we had guests in from England, I’m not sure who was driving the car that day.

You all know the drill…except when it came time to ignoring the affair, I was told in no uncertain terms by RSE that my credit would be adversely affected. In a lay sense..this was clearly a threat..but one in which there is no recourse other than deal with both the credit agencies and finding grounds for a law suit. I contacted the Atty handling the class action for advice, he did not return calls despite repeated efforts to reach him. I have subsequently paid the ticket and am now seeking ways to deal with the culprits who established this diabolic, and probably illegal, seemingly extortive practice. If there is a class action or any legal action, please count me in. Incidentally, I couldn’t reach anyone at the park, although I left countless messages.

[Reply]
Comment by Howard | July 27th, 2011

For those who haven’t heard about the L.A. city council’s new stance on red-light cameras, this is an interesting article .

Obviously the jurisdiction and purpose of cameras is slightly different in our case (against MRCA), but I think a lot of the issues cross over (i.e. courts unwilling to enforce, unpaid tickets go to credit agency but won’t go on your credit report or be reported to DMV, no telling who was driving the vehicle at time of violation, etc).

[Reply]
Howard Reply:
July 27th, 2011 at 9:37 am
I don’t know what happened to the link I’d pasted above, but let’s try this again:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0727-red-light-cameras-20110727,0,496609.story

[Reply]
Comment by Lazarus | July 28th, 2011

I read about this. Sadly, I just received one from Beverly Hills, which has its own city government. There are references in the article to L.A. Country but I’m not sure if these Beverly Hills tickets are going to go unprosecuted as well.

[Reply]
Ben Reply:
July 29th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
Does the “ticket” say “Notice to Appear”? If not, throw it away.

[Reply]
Lazarus Reply:
August 5th, 2011 at 7:16 pm
Unfortunately, it does.

I don’t have to send anything in or appear until early September, so I’m hoping that I get more info about Beverly Hill’s policy going forward by then.

[Reply]
Comment by Anonymous | August 5th, 2011

I thought i posted my story but i couldn’t find it, so i’ll post again. I’m not an attorney or i’m recommending you try what i did, but at least i can share my experience for what it’s worth.
I went to check out the mountain via Reseda blvd route last summer and to my surprise in August 2010, I got the surprise $175 “donation” request. I read through the comments on this website (which by the way is excellent resource) and decided to ignore it since it seemed like disputing through MRCA was waste of time.
I got the 2nd notice in October that i didn’t pay, so i ignored that too. In February of 2011, i got a letter from RSI (collection agency) asking for payment and the usual threats to my credit report. I sent them a certified letter asking to validate the debt (you can find standard templates online and even in MS Word) which gives them 30 days to respond. About 45 days later they sent me a regular USPS letter again saying i need to go to MRCA for the records. but when the 30 days was over, i sent them another certified mail stating stop harrassing me, the 30 days legal response time has passed and they didn’t satisfy my request (as it’s spelled out in Fair Debt Collections Practices Act). Never heard from them again, nor i’ve seen anything in my credit report. I’ll post if anything changes but my strategy was that i’ll have better luck fignthing the collection agency than MRCA and it worked so far.

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record Pissed | August 7th, 2011

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/photog1z/notthisshit.jpg

[Reply]
Clean Record Pissed Reply:
August 7th, 2011 at 7:09 am
PLUUUUZZZEEEE, READ from top to bottom here. Get educated. Yikes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Reply]
Comment by D. | August 19th, 2011

Dear All victims of MRCA’s Stop Sign Scam,

I paid the $175.00 fine, went to their “Kangaroo Court” “hearing” and lost (as everyone does), appealed in Van Nuys Superior Court, and their attorney called me one week before the Court Hearing and offered a good “settlement deal”. I received a refund for most of the fine.

Good Luck to All!
D.

[Reply]
tom henderson Reply:
August 22nd, 2011 at 8:24 am
Question for “D”

A refund “for most of the fine.” ??? Im curious as to just how much of the $175 you did get back, and what was the excuse for not returning ALL the fine + your costs??

[Reply]
D. Reply:
August 22nd, 2011 at 1:09 pm
$150. No excuse given.

[Reply]
Comment by Howard | August 21st, 2011

FYI, there was a story about the MRCA stop-sign cameras in this morning’s LA Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-park-citation-20110821,0,3464206.story

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
August 21st, 2011 at 9:21 pm
This article seems to suggest that on the one hand MRCA tickets are valid, but on the other hand if fought, they will be dismissed. Unfortunately the author leaves the issue ambiguous by not explaining this contradiction. Also, nothing is written about what happens when the fine goes to collections. It seems there’s something happening between the collections agency and credit bureaus to keep the unpaid fines off credit reports, since according to what posters here are writing, the fines aren’t showing up on their credit reports.

I would assume that with the collapse of the LA red light system, the validity of MRCA’s actions would become even more flimsy than they already seem to be.

[Reply]
tom henderson Reply:
August 22nd, 2011 at 8:22 am
I was sorta disappointed at the LAT article for the above mentioned reasons. The piece states that the LA City red light tix recipients who ignore them skate scott free. The same is true of the MCRA stop sign tix. The article failed to mention this. Somehow, I think that a favor was done to the MCRA by this article. Is it poss that an LAT reporter is corrupt? Naw. Not possible, right?

[Reply]
Howard Reply:
August 22nd, 2011 at 8:33 am
Sure, it’s possible that a reporter can be corrupt, but I think it is more likely that there are misinformed or lazy or just tight for space. Send a nice letter to the reporter (and cc the news desk) to ask some additional questions.

The article mentioned that one of the cameras was removed in January, but didn’t mention that it was one at the top of Reseda that wasn’t even at an intersection or crosswalk, and that DID contradict state law because there was no opposing sign in the other direction. If we are to believe that the signs and cameras are all about safety, then are we to assume that Reseda is now less safe?

[Reply]
Comment by Dexmajic | September 19th, 2011

After reading EVERY comment on this page, I’ve decided not to pay or respond at all to my $175 ticket for failing to come to a complete stop at Temescal. The video shows me easing through the stop sign but not fully stopping. That would be really out of character for me but it looks like that’s what happened. I was real surprised to see the ticket because I’ve never had any kind of moving violation in the 7 years I’ve lived in LA County. My credit is stellar. This is going in the trash, thanks everyone.

[Reply]
Comment by Levine | October 7th, 2011

The so-called California Rolling Stop is a misnomer. It is the California Rolling Non-Stop and is mainly used for bluffing. You obey the law and stop, these people slow down and nearly stop. If you don’t immediately start they never stop. You just have to decide whether you want to take a chance on a low speed t-bone or not. It is a very effective way of never having to stop.

[Reply]
Tom Henderson Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 7:56 am
Levine: Do you work for the MCRA??? Look at the top of Reseda. Where in the hell is the other traffic to have a T-Bone with? There are zero cross streets, zero crosswalks. Do explain where the hazard of a “rolling stops” exists at this location. If you want to plead stupidity, look at the pictures of the stop sign at the top of this very page. This scam is akin to having a policeman with a radar gun behind a tree and rousting people for being ONE mile over the speed limit. Just how ticky tack do you thing traffic enforcement should be?

[Reply]
Kenny Reply:
January 14th, 2012 (4 weeks ago) at 4:21 pm
This isn’t about rolling stops.
It is about a non profit organization -NOT A STATE AGENCY,
which has been given LIMITED authority to control
SOME state property.
They have distorted their authority
and have convinced many people that they are a viable
law enforcement agency. MRCA has no authority to issue any
legal citations or to enforce them.
If you have a family to support, or kids to pick up after school – just ignore MRCAs crap.
If you have time and are commited to our freedoms and the rule of REAL law, then close them down – PEACEFUL PROTEST.
Noody goes into their traps — they go broke.
Take their authority away.

[Reply]
Comment by Hugo Rodriguez | October 8th, 2011

I would love to add my name to any legal suit and or petition. This is disgusting! I do not plan to pay. Any further comments on how to deal with potential collection company is appreciated.

[Reply]
Comment by ND | October 8th, 2011

Just to remind anyone who is still debating whether or not to pay… DO NOT PAY! If you’ve come this far, I hope by now you’ve seen enough convincing you not to pay this. I received the first notification over a year ago. I let it go and received the other collections notices thereafter. I think I received three notices total over the span of a few months. Like I said, it has been over a year. About a month ago I was per-approved for a home loan. This didn’t touch my credit, and my score is spotless. DON’T BE FOOLED! DON’T GIVE IN!

[Reply]
Laura Reply:
October 11th, 2011 at 6:45 pm
So ND, you also ignored the collection notices? Just got one last week. Some others, on this blog, did respond, requesting a validation of the debt and didn’t get a legal response. Got two notices from MRCA and the collection notice last week. I think RSI and Redflex have the same owners, personally.

[Reply]
ND Reply:
October 11th, 2011 at 7:16 pm
Yes, I ignored all of the notices I received. I have not received a notice since the couple collections notices, and absolutely nothing has come from it.

[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
October 13th, 2011 at 10:40 am
I replied to my first collection notice from RSI requesting validation of the debt and got a letter from them about a week later. Their response is as follows:

“We have researched your dispute on the account listed above and have enclosed the validation asrequired by the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA). Enclosed is a copy of your itemized statement.”

It was simply a F*ckin’ copy of the citation that I first recieved from MRCA.

Then the letter said “We consider this dispute/balance as validated and request that you contact our office should you have any further questions”.

[Reply]
Steve S. Reply:
October 31st, 2011 at 5:28 pm
Thank you for making it clear. I was going to write them a letter to ask for a review, but even spending time doing this is a way to give them credit, isn’t it?

[Reply]
Ann Reply:
November 29th, 2011 at 1:44 pm
did they threaten you with civic court action against you at all? or just sent you collection letters?
Thank you!

[Reply]
NDamiani Reply:
November 29th, 2011 at 2:21 pm
No problem! I’m more than willing to provide any help I can to others who have been nailed with this scam.

They only sent me one or two collection letters. The last one I received was early this year. I have not received anything since. I haven’t been contacted by any collections agencies. I just moved into a new home, so I have been through quite an extensive credit check. This was nowhere to be found on any of my credit reports, and nothing was ever mentioned by the lender.

[Reply]
Comment by SteveR | October 14th, 2011

I received a ticket in July. To show what a scam this really is, I viewed the video and it clearly shows that I did come to a complete stop. I would like to be added to the “class” for the suit.

[Reply]
Comment by Arlene | October 14th, 2011

I received my ticket for $175 in June of 2010, went through the Kangaroo court hearing but, as a single working parent, was unable to take the time off to appeal. I too would like to be included on any class suit but, have not been able to find out who to contact for inclusion. Does anyone know?

[Reply]
Comment by deedee | October 20th, 2011

My husband and I just got the second one of these damn tickets in the past year. This one we got on his birthday after we went for a nice hike in Temescal. Might I note that we, like everyone else here, paid the SEVEN DOLLARS to park first. As has been mentioned here, video is being recorded at all times and when I watch it, having worked in production, it’s obvious that these clips have been altered. I have fought a lawsuit before and won but it took a long time and a GREAT lawyer. It also was for a huge some of money. I also concur that that since there is NO LEGAL BASIS for this, we cannot continue to “feed the beast” so as to encourage this unlawful and unethical behavior. Even if that means telling debt collectors to f-off! I received up to ten calls a day from a bank during my lawsuit where the “representatives” swore at me and cursed me. I just told them to call my lawyer and I WON! Do not pay! And don’t waste your time with Kangaroo court. I would rather pay a lawyer who fights fraud and actually change this corruption than encourage thieves who steal from good people. Please people, fight this and threaten anyone who harasses you with legal action. Thank you so much for all of this helpful information.

[Reply]
Comment by David A. | October 28th, 2011

Just received my ticket yesterday(Franklin Park). I’ve never
purposely flaunted the law, but this is an outrage. Mine is
going in the trash. Could care less about my credit report.
If they want my money, let them get it ” from my cold dead hands!” Thanks for the website. Btw,what’s the status on the class action lawsuit?

[Reply]
Comment by Steve S. | October 31st, 2011

Same here, got a $175 ticket at Franklin Canyon in July. There is obviously something completely illogical about the whole affair (besides being most likely illegal). People go to these parks to enjoy nature and to rest at a peaceful place. Then wham! The ticket comes in the mail, and the notion of going back feels like mental suicide.

By the way, they threaten you with a civil court action that could result in a civil penalty for debt nonpayment. Wow, what has this beautiful country come down to…

[Reply]
Comment by THunter | November 9th, 2011

A citation was mailed to my home May 2011. I ignored the first letter from MRCA and received another letter a few months later. I ignored that one as well. Now I’ve received the collection letter from the RSI company and plan to ignore it. If we don’t stand for something people…we will fall for anything. Don’t Pay!

[Reply]
Ann Reply:
November 29th, 2011 at 1:39 pm
Did they take any civil court action against you ??They do threaten by that in their “default notice”… What does that mean ?

[Reply]
Comment by tom w | November 14th, 2011

Just got my $175 citation at Termescal Canyon parking lot for failing to come to a complete stop at the sign. Looking forward to receive more info on class action lawsuit against MRCA. Thanks!

[Reply]
Comment by Phil | November 17th, 2011

Wife received 2 tickets coming and going from a wedding in the park. Will ignore all payment requests and jion the class action suit.

[Reply]
Comment by Ann | November 29th, 2011

I went to the hearing,lost of course, did not have to go to appeal to the Van Nuys court and received a “default letter” threatening me to enforce civil court action against me, is it collection attempts, or civil court action implies something beyond that???
Thank you!

[Reply]
Comment by rippedoffhiker | November 29th, 2011

I hope it works out for Ann. On a side note, and I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned, the camera on top of Reseda has now been moved up to the fee area. There is now a very large warning sign conveniently hidden by a tree, as is the camera itself. Almost impossible to see either one. I feel like giving the tree a trim.

[Reply]
Comment by Tom Henderson | November 30th, 2011

Note to all: As mentioned above- -I got the tix at Reseda in June of ’10. Ignored it. Two mos later, I got a letter from MCRA requesting the $175 + 10% = $192. Ignored it. Another 2-3 mos, I get the letter from RSI Collections asking for $240. Ignored that as well. And thats the last I have ever heard from them. There are similar stories riddled through this thread.
The best course is just flat out ignore it. Dont respond to anything. Treat it like the Pennysaver that comes in the mail every week. Just shitcan it and forget it. NOTHING WILL HAPPEN!
MCRA lacks legal standing to enforce these illegal extortion apparatuses. Dont do class action, dont appeal to the MCRA, do not ever enve respond in anyu to this racket.

I have done two credit checks since and nothing negative has showed up. I have renewed the lic plate on the offending vehicle twice. I even renewed my drivers license a yr after the orig ticket. No problems!
The MCRA is just happy to accept whatever easy money they can extort from willing and good citizens. They wont cause a stir, that could potentially bring down their money manufacturing enterprise. Hell, if the LAPD couldnt enforce their red light cameras, what legal standing could the MCRA possibly have???

DO NOT PAY. PAYING ONLY FEEDS THE MONSTER.

[Reply]
Comment by ArtDirector | December 2nd, 2011

For those of you who paid-up or are on the fence, I understand your fear.
But, nothing that will happen if you don’t pay.
I ignored the “ticket” and a few subsequent scary notices. It’s been 3 YEARS. No problems, no action, same good credit.
I agree with the above post…DO NOT FEED THE SCARY MONSTER.

Surprising someone in the area doesn’t give that Sunset/Temescal camera a nice shiny coat of paint…

[Reply]
Comment by David | December 6th, 2011

Recently I was driving North on Van Nuys Blvd from Ventura Blvd intending to get on the on ramp for the Eastbound Ventura Frieeway (US 101). I noticed on my right when I passed the intersection of Van Nuys Blvd and Kling Street, an MRCA Ranger vehicle, parked in front of a fire hydrant. There is no MCRA park near this intersection. I wonder why the MCRA ranger was park there, and what justifies the possible loss of life from blocking the fire hydrant. I have pictures if they can be posted to this website.

[Reply]
Eli Reply:
December 6th, 2011 at 1:37 pm
I’d love to see that

[Reply]
David Reply:
December 7th, 2011 at 9:50 am
I drove by the same fire hydrant today. There was a different MCRA vehicle parked in front of the same hydrant.

[Reply]
Comment by Celan Record Pissed | December 6th, 2011

As a person in transportation, catching a illegally parked Govt vehicle and a simple phone call to their dispatcher with a license number or vehiicle number would have embarrassed and caused some memorable ‘pain’ to the driver of that vehicle by his transportation supervisor when a complaint is made.
MCRA is EVERYWHERE ! County parks in the mountains are loaded with their kind. BEWARE!
I have just got active in Santa Susana Historical Society and they are connected with the MCRA through the Santa MOnica Mountain Conservacy. Be careful.

[Reply]
Sarah Reply:
December 27th, 2011 at 3:01 pm
Please respond to my request for information. A ranger gave me a $175. speeding ticket and I was only going around a bicyclist for safety.

Is this speeding ticket legal? It is different from the photo machines. Please advise. They want $175. by 12/31/11.

[Reply]
Comment by Martin | December 8th, 2011

I just got a ticket, and I wasn’t the one driving my motorcycle at the time of violation. I am going to fight it today. I will let everyone know how it goes. Also, I am interested in the class action lawsuit if that is still going on.

Sincerely,
Martin

[Reply]
Laura Reply:
December 8th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
Martin, read through this blog…there is no fighting and winning an MRCA “ticket.” Ignore it…nothing will happen.

[Reply]
Martin Reply:
December 11th, 2011 at 10:38 pm
I ignored it for over 8 months, after which a collections agency sent me a letter saying that I owe $300, and if I didn’t pay it would affect my credit. What would you have done Laura?? The whole process is bs, 2 dudes with a voice recorder in a huge empty room. lol. They said they will make their decision in 15 days.. such a cruel money making joke. I will probably have to take them to superior court because I am almost sure they will not dismiss it. I will continue to keep everyone posted.

[Reply]
Laura Reply:
December 21st, 2011 at 7:23 pm
I’ve gotten the collections notice too…still ignoring it.

[Reply]
Comment by J | December 14th, 2011

I’m a cop in LA. This thing is a joke and it’s precisely why I don’t write moving violations. They send a picture of your vehicle with no picture of the driver. A citation doesn’t go to a vehicle it goes to a person. They don’t even cite a California Vehicle Code section or have proof who is driving; therefore none of this would hold up in criminal court. Even the photo enforcement cameras in LA aren’t being enforced. So like the rest of you, it will go in the trash….

[Reply]
Tom Henderson Reply:
December 15th, 2011 at 7:43 am
Hi J, Hey, I ret almost 20 yrs ago. Im a 178 ser #. I shitcanned the bogus ticket about 18 mos ago, and nothing has happened since. I doubt the MCRA wants to make a big deal out of this and threaten their cash cow. They probably get 80-85% success rate with this scam. This is as close to 487 as Ive ever seen by a govt agency.

[Reply]
Comment by Sarah | December 27th, 2011

Please help me I’m scared. I have given the MRCA over $600. worth of $175.00 tickets. Two of these tickets were for the scam machine taking a photo and two were for a mean Officer Gomez hiding in the bushes saying I’m speeding when I was going around a bicyclist safely. I wrote 4 letters begging and pleading and was even interviewed by a guy who recorded my contesting the ticket. But of course he found in favor of the MRCA. He may have gotten a kick-back from my money.

Now they want &175. more by 21/31/11 or they claim itwill go to collections. The ‘Officer” was a ranger and a mean guy.

Please reply to my e-mail. I need help I’m on a limited income. They want my Christmas money. Count me in on the class action law suit and the media protest. I will organize a protest but I need your help.

Please respond to me by my e-mail address. I need support and I will help you guys contact the media to rat out these criminals.

[Reply]
Comment by Sarah | December 27th, 2011

They want $175. more! I’ve already paid over $600. and I’m just a happy weekend hiker in Franklin Canyon.

Beware of sneaky rangers. They hide in the bushes and then leaps out and write you a ticket with no mercy.

You try to fight the ticket and they always refuse to deny the ticket or give a warning. They are ruthless!

[Reply]
Laura Reply:
December 27th, 2011 at 4:00 pm
Sarah, read through this blog (granted it’s long)and especially the post just before yours. Others have ignored it and nothing has happened. You’ve already forked over enough for this illegal practice.

[Reply]
Laura Reply:
January 16th, 2012 (3 weeks ago) at 6:57 pm
BTW, out of curiosity I checked to see when I’d last heard from the collection agency and it was Sept 21st. Nothing else since then. I didn’t respond to any notice I’ve received.

[Reply]
Comment by ThanksEveryone | December 28th, 2011

Thank y’all so much for voicing your experiences and opinions. Just to respond in kind, I received the standard $175-190-240 trio of notices and was ready to write both MRCA and RSI scathing letters today. I figured a little Internet research first wouldn’t hurt and found this great resource.

Truthfully, the third letter from the collection agency made me waver a bit and wonder if I should just pay and be done with it, but this forum gave me my confidence back. Bottom line, something is dreadfully wrong with this process and I am not going to be a part of it.

The only thing I’m considering now is whether to write letters to them requesting an apology and a reimbursement of 44 cents for postage.

[Reply]
Comment by James C. | January 3rd, 2012

I did not know about this until I got my citation in the mail today.

I ran into your blog post doing research about the situation.

Mine happened at the top of the hill of Topanga Canyon Rd. Because of terrible traffic I go through on 405, I have been going around by taking Topanga Canyon Rd from the valley to Santa Monica recently.

The view of the city coming over the hill is great. And I noticed that there is a small park at the top of the hill. So I stopped by briefly to enjoy the view and was pulling out of the park. Exit of the park is not at the exact T-intersection of the road (It forms more of bendy Y-intersection) and I was busy seeing the oncoming traffic and still enjoying the view… I did not notice the stop sign at all.

I checked the video footage and you can totally see my car inching along through the stop sign.

Yes, I broke the law. But this just does not sound right to have stop sign at a place where it’s more of a Yield situation. And $175 fine seems excessive. Not to mention the fact that this will go into my record…

How do I fight this on immediate term? Any cases where one of your readers contested and won?

[Reply]
ND Reply:
January 3rd, 2012 at 9:21 pm
Do not do anything. You were nailed at the same exact place I was. I haven’t taken any action, and no action has been taken against me. You will receive a few notices. Ignore all of them.

[Reply]
Tom Henderson Reply:
January 4th, 2012 at 9:41 am
Jim: What you need to do is just shitcan any and all offerings that have and will be sent to you. The MCRA has no horsepower to enforce this scam. Think about your sitch: Why is there a stop sign? Its at the border of the MCRAs property/jurisdiction. Why would they care how you enter the traffic on Topanga, which is none of there concern. Is it their intent to prevent a T/A on Topanga, which is not their domain? Hell no, they are just ‘revenuing’ with that stop sign. Has nothing to do with safety. Youre correct, that spot warrants a yield sign, at best. It was happy for years with no signage at all!

[Reply]
Comment by Artdrectr | January 3rd, 2012

Read thru the posts here. Simply ignore the ‘ticket’ and any further mail regarding it. It’s a scare scam. If you respond to it they’ll invite you to court and the court will have no option but to have you pay up.
Toss the notice in the circular file.

[Reply]
Comment by cj | January 13th, 2012 (4 weeks ago)

Yes, I too am a victim of this ‘ticket’ crap!!
Athe the top of Reseda Blvd., I have been going up there for years, before all the houses and parking spaces! Just so happens I haven’t been in a while and guess what I found… a Stop Sign in the Middle of the ROAD, seriously!!??? And a $175 ticket for what? A rolling California Stop? When no one was in a cross walk, and it’s not EVEN an Intersection!
Well I’m not sure what to do at this point, I really don’t want to pay it, the cost doesn’t warrant the action! I will keep checking back for advice and see what has happened to the rest of you!

[Reply]
Comment by Kenny | January 14th, 2012 (4 weeks ago)

These folks are way out of line.
They are trying to extort money from,
and harrass, and intimidate, and accuse
my wife of something she didn’t do.
I am a man who will not tolerate the abuse of his wife.
I will be attending one of their meetings soon!
I will do the prison time necessary to bring this scam
to the public eye.

[Reply]
Eli Reply:
January 15th, 2012 (3 weeks ago) at 2:29 pm
Prison time huh?

I’m sure whatever you’re planning will be very effective. Public outcry will be totally on your side, and the moment they lock you away, the MRCA will just cease to exist.

[Reply]
Clean Record Pissed Reply:
January 15th, 2012 (3 weeks ago) at 3:54 pm
Wow, why so snarky and mean a comment?
George Washington spoke of taking ‘action’ instead of stopped at ‘words’. People need to take action in ways that they are comfortable with this corruption issue.
PS…Why is it the loudest ‘boos’ always come from those in the free peanut gallery seats. (Or are you secretly with the MRCA, Eli?)
Oh well….I would start a public informational protest event passing out flyers right next to the idiot camera postions wearing a BIG orange safety vest making damn sure no one that day gets a fake ticket. Action, not words! Call the news media and get coverage for the event! Embarrassing for MRCA, huh? NO money for MRCA, no reason to have cameras there.

[Reply]
Eli Reply:
January 15th, 2012 (3 weeks ago) at 7:10 pm
I do believe this is the second time you’ve tried to link me with the MRCA. Keep it up – third time is the charm. What is a “free peanut gallery seat” in this context anyway?

I agree with you on the fliers, signs, and publicity. That sounds like a great way to go. I appeared on CBS personally, and have done what I can to make sure everyone I know knows about this matter in other ways as well. I assume you have done the same?

However, none of what you suggest is a jail-able offense, which is what Kenny is talking about, yes?

Unless Kenny is planning a financial takeover of the MRCA so he can embezzle money and return it to ticket payers, which would be a non-violent jail-able offense, it sounds like he is suggesting violence.

There is certainly a time and place for violence, but blowing up the MRCA or assaulting some of their officers or ..(use your imagination for things that result in jail time)…really sounds like a superficial, even silly, use of force – certainly nothing to effect an overhaul of the MRCA or an end to their stop sign scam.

So, to me, this post sounds more like the angry, macho, posturing of a child threatening to resort to the type of violence that is the last resort of fools and tantrum-throwers than an actual offer to do anything useful or otherwise actually make a difference.

You’re right – my reply was snarky, for which I apologize to Kenny.

I guess I’m just tired of hearing “boot in your ass” as the universal solution to all of our social problems, usually from people who have bigger boots than they do minds or ideas. After all, George Washington, who you reference, was a man of big ideas as much as he was of action, and understood that action without thought is the nemesis of an informed free society.

Maybe if we had fewer people threatening to shove a boot up the MRCA’s ass, and more people willing to find out when the parks are busiest and organize a team to protest on those days (perhaps blocking the cameras with their signs), hand out flyers, educate the public not to pay these tickets, or go to city hall and lobby against the MRCA, we would have better results than if we all did whatever mysterious thing Kenny is suggesting and then accepted prison time.

[Reply]
Clean Record Pissed Reply:
January 16th, 2012 (3 weeks ago) at 8:17 am
…jeez, where to even begin on this one….

[b]I’m capable of speaking for myself, thanks. You got an polite answer, just not the one you care to let stand without clouding the issue with more snarkiness…I speak for myself, thanks. Revel in your self righteousness posturing, Eli. I’m not interested in going around of going around the same ‘failure’ tree. I’m clearly for trying something better on this Martin Luther ‘action’ King weekend![/b]

[Reply]
Eli Reply:
January 16th, 2012 (3 weeks ago) at 10:47 am
Which part of what I said, exactly, do you have a problem with?

[Reply]
Clean Record Pissed Reply:
January 16th, 2012 (3 weeks ago) at 3:17 pm
Must have hit a button with olde Eli.
How’s your foot taste?
I can see your problem. You have an error in your BTK (Brain to Keyboard) Interface. I can’t help ya. You fix it, k? I have to get back to my Barry Manilow music.

[Reply]
Eli Reply:
January 16th, 2012 (3 weeks ago) at 4:03 pm
Can we try communicating here?

I always run into this problem with you – I’m actually interested in which of my ideas you take issue with, and how, but you won’t actually say?

You keep responding with insults, but you never actually respond to what I’ve said. Do you actually understand what I said? Did you even read it?

Are you able to understand and respond in a meaningful way with ideas or logical disagreement, or something, other than personal insults?

Is it that you disagree with my views on the proper use of violence? Do you not think that it’s a good idea to fight the MRCA effectively, rather than suggesting nonsense? Do you not think the ideas I had were effective? Perhaps you disagree with my assessment that Kennny was proposing a fairly ineffective brand of violence?

What do you actually THINK?

[Reply]
Comment by Kenny | January 14th, 2012 (4 weeks ago)

A little more for those of you without the guts to
take it to the limit.
use GOOGLE EARTH’s historical views to see how
MRCA has changed the intersection and moved the stop sign
in Topanga.
They also repainted the lines in such a way as to encourage the violations they are supposedly trying to stop.

I intend to close the “parking areas” and disable the cameras.
Wanna come with me? __NO VIOLENCE__
kenny@netptc.net

[Reply]
Tom Henderson Reply:
January 17th, 2012 (3 weeks ago) at 3:51 pm
Kenny, Cant say as tho I havent thought of ‘Fixing the camera at Reseda’ at one point in the recent past. Now I just put a rag over my lic plate and repeatedly drive thru the SS.

In reality, the best thing you can do is just to ignore the offerings that you have and will get in the mail. The MCRA has no more horespower than the mall parking lot security guard. Of course, if you want to become the “sand in their vaseline”, you could shine a reflective mirror at their lens when many cars are exiting, or stand by the ‘limit line’ and feign crossing the street to insure that all cars make a complete stop. Im sure they will notice the lack of rev for that certain time period.

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record Pissed | January 17th, 2012 (3 weeks ago)

Kenny you had better check your email on this matter. There are ‘doers’ and then there is ‘talkers’. Some don’t even ‘talk’, just pay. A real shame !

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record Pissed | January 21st, 2012 (3 weeks ago)

I got some high power legal advice on these red stop sign camera video tickets. TWO lawyers, Steve Solomon & Ralph Jamieson told me this ticket is BOGUS or ‘Mickey Mouse’. Ralph heard of these phoney matters. Don’t bother with it because you are innocent until proven guilty in a court and you have a right to face & cross examine your accuser…BOTH things MRCA don’t do with this system. FINISHED!
For those who live in Los Angeles getting Time Warner cable TV- ‘Legal Help Live’ , a live phone call-in show for legal issues, hosted by Steve Solomon & Ralph Jamieson airs WEds, 4-5 pm, LA City channel #36, public access cable. It airs every other Weds. starting in 2012 on January 17th.

SOLOMON, SALTSMAN & JAMIESON
426 Culver Boulevard
Playa Del Rey, California 90293
Phone: 310-822-9848
Fax: 310-822-3512
Email: reception@ssjlaw.com
Website: http://www.ssjlaw.com

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record Pissed | January 23rd, 2012 (2 weeks ago)

Many of the small parks are closing because lack of money from the State, county, or city. Its seems the Joe Edminston of the MRCA has found a more stable money stream from these ganster unethical video camera means of strong-arming the people silly enough to try to use these parks by driving into them throough these ticket traps. Don’t feed the monster and protest this illegal money solicitation from shadey anomymous charlatan means.

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record Pissed | January 24th, 2012 (2 weeks ago)

IS THIS AN AGENCY TOO BIG AND MILKING THE TAXPAYER? TOO BIG TO FAIL ??!! USE THEM AT YOUR OWN RISK !!!!!! YOU COULD BE CITED NEXT !!!

===
Board MRCA members:

George Lange, Chair

Jerome C. Daniel, Vice Chair

Ed Hayduk

Jim Hasenauer

The Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority (MRCA) is a local government public entity established in 1985 pursuant to the Joint Powers Act.
The MRCA is a local partnership between the ‘Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy’, (a state agency established by the Legislature), and the ‘Conejo Recreation and Park District’ and the ‘Rancho Simi Recreation and Park District’ both of which are local park agencies established by the vote of the people in those communities.
The MRCA is dedicated to the preservation and management of local open space and parkland, watershed lands, trails, and wildlife habitat. The MRCA manages and provides ranger services for almost 60,000 acres of public lands and parks that it owns and that are owned by the ‘Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy’ or other agencies and provides comprehensive education and interpretation programs for the
public.
The MRCA works in cooperation with the ‘Conservancy’ and other local government partners to acquire parkland, participate in vital planning processes, and complete major park improvement projects. The MRCA provides natural resources and scientific expertise, critical regional planning services, park construction services, park operations, fire prevention, ranger services, educational and
leadership programs for thousands of youth each year, and is one of the lead agencies providing for the revitalization of the Los Angeles River.

-
The ‘Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy’ was established by the California State Legislature in 1980. Since that time, it has helped to preserve over 60,000 acres of parkland in both wilderness and urban settings, and has improved more than 114
public recreational facilities throughout Southern California.
The Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy zone covers an area from the edge of the Mojave Desert to the Pacific Ocean. The zone encompasses the whole of the Santa Monica Mountains, the Simi Hills, the Verdugo Mountains and significant portions
of the Santa Susana and San Gabriel Mountains.
In addition, the ‘Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority’ also owns or manages thousands of acres in the Sierra Pelona Mountains and in the Whittier-Puente Hills. From north to south, these areas drain into the Santa Clara River, Calleguas Creek, numerous smaller coastal watersheds in the Santa Monica Mountains, and the Los Angeles River and Rio Hondo.

‘Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy’ is in Balwin Hills, Los Padres National Forest and adj parks, Lower LA river parks, San Gabriel Mts, Santa Monica Mts, Santa Susana Mts, Simi Hills, Upper Santa Clara River, Urban LA River Parks, Valley LA River Parks, Verdugo & San Rafael Mts, Whitter/Puenta Hills.
-
‘Conejo Recreation and Park District’ is Banyan Park, Beyer park, Borchard community Center and Park, Canada Park, Chumash Indian Museum, Community pool at Cal Lutheran University, Conejo Community Center and Park, Conejo Creek Equestrian Center and North & South Parks, Conejo Creek Southwest Park, Conejo Valley Botanical Gardens, Crowley House, Cypress park, Dog Park, Dos Vientos Community
Center and Park and Neighborhood Center, Dos Vientos Playfield, El Parque de La Paz, Estella Park, Evenstar Park, Fiore Playfield, Glenwood Park, Goebel Senior Adult Center, Hickory Park, Hillcrest Center, Kimber Park, Lang Ranch Community Park and Neighborhood Center, Lynn Oaks Park, McCrea Ranch, Newbury Gateway Park, Newbury Park High School Park, North Ranch Neighborhood Center, North ranch
Playfield, Northwood Park, oakbrook Neighborhood Park, Oakbrook Regional Park, Old Meadows Center/therapy Center, Old Meadows Park, Pepper Tree Playfield, Rancho Conejo Playfield, Russell Park, Southshore Hills Park, Spring Meadow Park, Stagecoach Inn Museum, Suburbia Park, Sunset Hills Park, Sycamore Neighborhood Park, Thousand Oaks Community Center,Thousand Oaks Community Center Playfield, Triunfo Park, Walnut Grove Equestrian Center, Waverly Park, Wendy Park, Wildflower Playfield, Wildwood Neighborhood park, Wildwood Park.
-
Rancho Simi Recreation and Parks District is Arroyo Park sv, Arroyo Simi Bike Path sv, Arroyo Simi Equestrian sv, Arroyostow Park sv, Atherwood Park sv, Berylwood Park sv, Big Sky Park sv, Challenger Park sv, Chaparral Park op, Chumash Park and Trail sv, Citrus Grove Park sv, Corriganville Park sv, Coyote Hills Park sv, Darrah Volunteer Park sv, Deerhill Park op, Eagle View Park op, Foothill Park sv
Frontier Park sv, Houghton-Schreiber Park sv, Indian Springs Park op, Knolls Park sv, Las Llajas Canyon Trail sv, Lincoln Park sv, Long Canyon Trail sv, Mae Boyar Park, Mayfair Park sv, Medea Creek Park op, Mt. Mccoy Trail sv, Oak Canyon
Community Park op, Oak Canyon Dog Park op, Oak Park Community Center and Garden op Oak Park Community Gardens op, Old Windmill Park sv, Rancho Madera Community Park sv, Rancho Santa Susana Community Center sv, Rancho Simi Community Park (duck pond) sv, Rancho Tapo Community Park (lemon) sv, Rocky Pointe Nature Park sv, Santa Susana Depot sv, Santa Susana Park sv, Sequoia Park sv, Simi Dog Park sv, Simi Hills Golf Course sv, Simi Hills Park sv, Sinaloa Golf Course sv,
Sinaloa Park sv, Sinaloa Youth Ball Fields sv, Stargazer Park sv, Strathearn Historical Park and Museum sv, Sycamore Bmx Track sv, Sycamore Canyon Park sv, Sycamore Drive Community Center sv, Sycamore Park sv, Valley View Park op, Verde Park sv, Vista del Arroyo Park sv, Willowbrook Park sv

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record Pissed | January 24th, 2012 (2 weeks ago)

Please find an amended agenda for our MRCA meeting tomorrow, Wednesday, January 25, 2012 at ** 2pm. **** meeting on Weds during ‘public comment’ time at Conejo Recreation and Park District; 403 West Hillcrest Drive, Thousand Oaks, CA.

[Reply]
Comment by Clean Record Pissed | January 28th, 2012 (2 weeks ago)

Hey,
Where are ALL of you complainers, talkers, and ‘I won’t pay this’ people like ‘Kenny’ & all ??!!
Will anyone see you at this meeting ??!!
I fully realize good people are working during the day at 2 PM, but maybe that is how these MRCA gangster folks get away with their scam for many years now.
How about asking them for a special evening public meeting for once and then legions of voters fed up with this scam show up? Just a thought….

The regular MRCA meeting is on Wednesday, February 1, 2012 at 2pm.

Corresponding meeting agenda materials can be found online by using the following link: http://www.mrca.ca.gov/attachment.asp?agendaid=219

[Reply]

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Welcome to the Freedom Minute

The Freedom Minute is dedicated to a discussion of all things having to do with personal freedom and what I see as the steady encroachment by government on our personal rights. I take a decidedly libertarian point of view in my analysis of economics and personal freedoms. Note that I intentionally spell libertarian with a small "l" since I identify more with the overall philosophy than with any political party. If you're not familiar with libertarian philosophy or you think you know what it is, it might be useful to read the short primer which appears in the Philosophy section. In addition, you might want to grab a copy of Libertarianism: A Primer by David Boaz or Libertarianism in One Lesson by David Bergland, both excellent books on libertarian thought.

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